Author Topic: super mario sunshine rant (Read 43247 times)

BP · « **Reply #45 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:18:32 PM »

Well, knowing the writers of the mainstream Mario games, we're probably right.

Not having to split the spotlight among sidekicks is always cleaner than splitting it among seven. Again take a look at NSMB. Theoretically, the Koopalings could operate identically as minibosses in the towers (and you know they would). But there are more than seven towers. I think there are more like nine or ten. And the pre-final battle sequence would be a nightmare with seven Koopalings all gathered to throw Bowser's bones in that cauldron. And don't forget, Bowser Jr. fights in that last battle as well. You'd never beat it if all seven were all over you.

And in Galaxy, there was a huge number of original bosses, and Bowser Jr. only appeared about three times.

Just the facts. Seven villainous sidekicks just can't get appropriate screentime.

As a character, Bowser Jr. doesn't have too much going for him, at least not yet. But c'mon. In Sunshine, EVERY speaking character was annoying. In most games, his recycled voice clips aren't too good. But he got better ones in Galaxy, and I hope they go with stuff more like that for future games. He's not as good a sidekick for Bowser as Kammy Koopa, but I can't picture her in a game that's not Paper Mario. And I have faith she will return--she was probably excluded from Super Paper Mario just because of how unnecessary she was and how very little screen time she'd've gotten. Toad gets his "omg Mario help" role back probably for nostalgic values and because starting it off with Parakarry delivering a letter wouldn't have worked.

The Chef · « **Reply #46 on:** March 26, 2009, 06:42:56 PM »

Well, Super Paper Mario wasn't Paper Mario 3, so that explains that.

For NSMB they could've added Boom-Boom or something for those extra three towers, or maybe had Bowser Jr. appear with the Koopalings (which seems a tad awkward). I feel like an idiot now for not remembering the final battle, but I think Kamek could've done the resurrection spell just as well.

You can't deny that the guys at AlphaDream seriously missed a winning opportunity when they used the Koopalings in M&L. I can even imagine them appearing in a Paper Mario title under IntSys's care. Surely they can characterize them in a unique and balanced manner if given the chance, no?

BP · « **Reply #47 on:** March 26, 2009, 07:56:24 PM »

So your suggestions to solve an overflow of characters is to add more? Hrrrraaaaahhahhaa. Boom Boom appearing for three towers while the Koopalings appeared in the rest sounds out of place, almost like that'd be ten Koopalings, three of which are identical and very boring-looking. Throwing in Kamek at the last second with no dialog would liken him to just some Magikoopa, and it would feel like the final battle was against Bowser and an enemy. Imagine a Goomba in Bowser Jr.'s place there.

The Koopalings were without doubt tacked onto Superstar Saga as fanservice. And what happened? Excessive bosses with no dialog. Giving them dialog would result in? Excessive bosses with excessive dialog. They're out of place being at the end, almost like a typical fight-all-bosses round right before the end a la Kirby's Adventure (the miniboss tower) or Viewtiful Joe... except these bosses aren't bosses you've already fought, and why on Earth would you want a fight-all-bosses mode in an RPG unless there were only four bosses (yeah Final Fantasy I, you got it)?

So you want to spread them across the game instead, with bigger roles? But Superstar Saga's bosses were highly disorganized up until Bowser's Castle--you fought them as they came. And it was BETTER that way. The times you know your number of targets and it divides your game up into several chapters in which you usually know your bosses and must travel to their lairs... Paper Mario, for example... it's less exciting. Paper Mario 2 has enough times that the end boss was totally unexpected that it was okay. And, if they were the main bosses of an RPG under Bowser's command, you know they'd try to cram them all into the ending sequence.

Tl;dr: The Koopalings were pretty cool for their time, much better than Bowser at the end of every world. But today's standards for a video game just won't have it. It'd be a mess and subtract from a lot.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #48 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:15:00 PM »

In Japan, Kamek is just some magikoopa, because they're all called kamek over there.
Bird Person has never played a Mega Man game?

BP · « **Reply #49 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:19:40 PM »

Not from start to finish, no. Enough to understand that they're hard games. I will try to finish Mega Man & Bass someday.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #50 on:** March 26, 2009, 11:17:54 PM »

My point being that you always fight all the bosses again in a row at the end.

ShadowBrain · « **Reply #51 on:** March 27, 2009, 07:23:36 AM »

Was Mega Man the first game to do that? I didn't know that would happen when I played MM2 and it kind of caught me off guard, though I guess I should've seen it coming. I don't know... that's always struck me as a lame way to artifically extended a game's length.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #52 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:38:34 PM »

Uh no, it's an awesome way to make a game really hard to beat. I don't know if Mega Man was the first or not, but in Mega Man 1, the bosses are all part of the final stages and you have to beat several on each stage between portions of the level. Much harder than the way they are in the rest of the games.

bullykoopa96 · « **Reply #53 on:** March 29, 2009, 03:54:07 PM »

Quote from: Bird Person on March 26, 2009, 07:56:24 PM

Tl;dr: The Koopalings were pretty cool for their time, much better than Bowser at the end of every world. But today's standards for a video game just won't have it. It'd be a mess and subtract from a lot.

I guess we'll never know

jdaster64 · « **Reply #54 on:** April 04, 2009, 07:42:27 AM »

Back on the subject of the Hover/Rocket/whatever Nozzle, I agree that just the various jumps of SM64 were better. To top it off, you could combine triple jumps, side somersaults, and other moves with the dive attack for even more interesting results.

BP · « **Reply #55 on:** April 04, 2009, 12:51:14 PM »

I did love some of the new ordinary jumps Sunshine had. The spin jump, I used all too often (especially with Yoshi), and the sudden flip jump like you could do in Super Mario 64 but without a running start stands out. I don't think the Spin Jump was in Galaxy due to the spin attack, though, am I right? I seriously need to just play some more Galaxy.

The Chef · « **Reply #56 on:** April 04, 2009, 01:09:07 PM »

Nope. No spin jump for Galaxy.

I'd like to have a 3D game to just give Mario his SM64 moveset and allow him to obtain FLUDD and the spin attack from SMG as power-ups or something. They can keep the spin jump too.

Weegee · « **Reply #57 on:** April 04, 2009, 03:39:27 PM »

Keep in mind that, for such a game to fly, you'd need buttons to jump, crouch, dive, ground-pound, control the camera, use FLUDD, change nozzles and use the spin attack. Not to say that it's completely unattainable, but it could be tough without a seventeen-button Atari Jaguar Pro controller.

Silver Metaknight · « **Reply #58 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:39:41 AM »

Super Mario Sunshine I thought was a good game. The voices didn't bother me, and if they did, just press the mute button. The game focused more on exploration than action, which turned some Mario fans off, so Nintendo even threw some bonus levels with no FLUDD, and people still complained. The levels where nice, they have decent variety for trying to stay tropical, they where huge and had plenty to do, and you could even ride Yoshi, which is more that what you could say for SM64 and SMG. The only flaws I can think of is there tyhe bosses are underwhelming and the blue coins are a pain to gather.

bullykoopa96 · « **Reply #59 on:** April 05, 2009, 12:56:28 PM »

I really doubt the exploration aspect was an innovative idea by Nintendo...collect these red coins, collect these blue coins, etc. One could make the argument that yeah it's different and innovative, but it's not. It's just lazy.

At this point in time I don't know what I'd rather see...Nintendo make new Mario platformers that are terrible, or just no longer try. Galaxy was a good game, but it's getting to that point where Mario games are getting fewer and further between, and unfortunately the bad seems to be outweighing the good.

I guess we'll find out when Nintendo releases their next system. That seems to be the pattern of Mario games nowadays, one per system.