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Author Topic: How would you wrap up the Mario series?  (Read 13601 times)

« on: May 14, 2010, 06:28:45 PM »
If the brass of Nintendo decided to end it all, and gave you creative control, what would you like to see in the last game that sends off the Super Mario Brothers once and for all? Would anybody die? Would new villains be introduced or would you bring back old ones? Would it be set somewhere different?

« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 06:32:01 PM »
A big bang would happen and simultaneously kill everyone, but the universe would start over, beginning immediatley before the events of the last game. Things wouldn't go exactly the same as they did during the intro sequences though..
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2010, 07:17:43 PM »
A big bang would happen and simultaneously kill everyone, but the universe would start over, beginning immediatley before the events of the last game. Things wouldn't go exactly the same as they did during the intro sequences though..
So, you'd make SMG?  /s
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 08:14:54 PM »
I'd cancel the last game and get to work on a new game in the Star Fox series (20 years from now, when we have the technology to voice-chat to the Star Fox teammates and have them respond intelligently).

There's been enough Mario games in several different genres, and several "perfect" Mario games that anything new would be judged against. The other franchises need some love too, you know. Maybe I'd make a new Bubble Bobble. It's gotta be drop-dead easy to make a new game in that series that doesn't suck. Give it online play and randomly-generated levels, keep the graphics the same because ANY change is sacrilicious, and you're good to go.
You didn't say wot wot.

« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 11:41:23 PM »
Yes. Yes I would. That way, if someone wanted to pick it up again after a number of years, they could start it up however since the characters didn't really die.

Seriously, I think SMG is the closest to a perfect Mario game as it can get. The only thing lacking is a true two player mode, but New SMBW makes up for that. Kinda.
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2010, 12:24:57 PM »
Long post time: tl;dr readers please read the last paragraph (although, if you don't wanna take the time to read this, you suck big ones because there's a lot of thought-provoking material in the following).

I'd make a story and definitive setting for Mario. While I can understand people saying they like their Mario games to be single adventures focused on gameplay, for me, I like to see past all that. When I play a game, I wonder about where I am in Mario's world in relation to locations in past games. I wonder about the inner workings of the kingdom (the block university researching ? and ! blocks' peculiar properties in Superstar Saga was really awesome... just wish it went into more depth) and a ton of other stuff. I wish things in the Mario universe existed for a purpose rather than just existing solely for either providing a backdrop for where you're at or an obstacle for Mario.

I wish Mario had the same story depth and awesome consistency as, say, the Pokemon series. I really enjoy its detailed maps that ties in all the regions together (Kanto, Johto, etc.). I wanna know where World 1-1 from SMB is in relation to, say, Toad Highlands golf course, or whether you can see Isle Delfino from Vista Hill. If you look through a telescope, can you see Star Road? I love large, open world places. I like being able to see things in the distance knowing that I can go to them.

GTA IV and GTA: San Andreas are both good examples of great feeling and use of depth. I also really loved being able to see all the different levels in Sunshine from Delfino Plaza. I loved going to the veeeery top of the enormous palm trees at Pianta Village and looking around the island. Going on top of the ferris wheel at Pinna Park and looking around was also pretty awesome. Now, that is the kind of consistency I like. You could see how all the levels tied in; they weren't just super-isolated places.

Mario's lands, however, are usually always tightly focused and feel claustrophobic. They're typically archipelagian settings (Mario World, Mario RPG, etc.), or "in-close-proximity-to-the-shore" settings (Paper Mario... and.... well, lots of games). Also, that's usually the setting... if we get a large enough map screen in the first place, that is. While isolated areas are kinda not my thing, it'd be cool if there was at least some correlation between all the lands we've seen in Mario games.

I love gaining insight to things in games. Pokemon is another great example. It explains the story behind quite a few things, such as how Pokeballs were first manufactured, the etymology of the word "pokeball" and what Pokemon were called before the invention of the pokeball. I also like how there are legitimate businesses based off Pokemon that produce Pokemon products, such as Silph Co. and Devon Corporation. That, for example, makes me think what businesses are in Mushroom City because there are sure a lot of skyscrapers on that race track in Double Dash. I like how despite having a strange premise which deals with hoards of magical creatures that are caught and trained, etc., the Pokemon world is a normal, functioning, realistic, and coherent world and not just a zany, down-the-rabbit-hole type world.

I'd want to tie every loose end up ever, give shoutouts to characters long forgotten, and make an attempt at illustrating the geography of the Mushroom Kingdom. I'd make an open world Mario game with vast scope and I'd have Mario talk. I'd probably do a billion other cool things, but I've burned myself out talking about all this stuff, so I'll leave it at this.
Formerly quite reasonable.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 07:28:11 PM »
The first thing I'd like to mention is that if I had to give the Mario franchise a proper send-off, I'd make a massive hardware-straining game that incorporates references, locations, items, characters, enemies and who-knows-what else from every Mario game ever made. It would have a graphical style somewhere between SMG and SSBB and the plot would be about Bowser gathering up an army consisting of all of Mario's previous villains in an attempt to get revenge for how-ever-many years of failure. Luigi, Yoshi, Peach, Toad and Wario would be playable. The world would be completely open-ended and feature even the most obscure locations such as Sub-Con and Mario Land. Mario would finally be able to use every power-up he's ever had access to in full 3D. Characters like Pauline and Wanda from Mario & Wario would have cameo appearances. This game would likely never get made, but the Mario franchise would likely not end any time soon.

I'd make a story and definitive setting for Mario. While I can understand people saying they like their Mario games to be single adventures focused on gameplay, for me, I like to see past all that. When I play a game, I wonder about where I am in Mario's world in relation to locations in past games. I wonder about the inner workings of the kingdom (the block university researching ? and ! blocks' peculiar properties in Superstar Saga was really awesome... just wish it went into more depth) and a ton of other stuff. I wish things in the Mario universe existed for a purpose rather than just existing solely for either providing a backdrop for where you're at or an obstacle for Mario.

The funniest thing about all the world-building and depth the RPGs maintain is that it's all done in jest. Things like that block university always came off as an affectionate spoof of continuity hogging, and in Mario's world, that's probably the perfect way to go about it.

Quote
I wish Mario had the same story depth and awesome consistency as, say, the Pokemon series. I really enjoy its detailed maps that ties in all the regions together (Kanto, Johto, etc.). I wanna know where World 1-1 from SMB is in relation to, say, Toad Highlands golf course, or whether you can see Isle Delfino from Vista Hill. If you look through a telescope, can you see Star Road? I love large, open world places. I like being able to see things in the distance knowing that I can go to them.

The geography is never consistent simply for the sake of gameplay. However, it's not like they never refer to previous areas in newer games. Dry Dry Desert is implied to be the same place as Kalamari Desert (both are called "Kara Kara Desert" in Japan) and even features the same (or at least a similar) choo-choo train. The opening stage of SMG2 is a recreation of the first stage of SMB1. That's about all the consistency I need.

Quote
GTA IV and GTA: San Andreas are both good examples of great feeling and use of depth. I also really loved being able to see all the different levels in Sunshine from Delfino Plaza. I loved going to the veeeery top of the enormous palm trees at Pianta Village and looking around the island. Going on top of the ferris wheel at Pinna Park and looking around was also pretty awesome. Now, that is the kind of consistency I like. You could see how all the levels tied in; they weren't just super-isolated places.

Mario's lands, however, are usually always tightly focused and feel claustrophobic. They're typically archipelagian settings (Mario World, Mario RPG, etc.), or "in-close-proximity-to-the-shore" settings (Paper Mario... and.... well, lots of games). Also, that's usually the setting... if we get a large enough map screen in the first place, that is. While isolated areas are kinda not my thing, it'd be cool if there was at least some correlation between all the lands we've seen in Mario games.

SMS was pretty much the only mainline Mario game to do such a thing. The RPGs also usually do that but they're kinda limited by RPG-style perspectives and geometries (M&L is from an overhead perspective and everything is all block-shaped). Super Mario Galaxy doesn't have to worry about this because it's set in outer space amidst a bunch of lost satellites.

Quote
I love gaining insight to things in games. Pokemon is another great example. It explains the story behind quite a few things, such as how Pokeballs were first manufactured, the etymology of the word "pokeball" and what Pokemon were called before the invention of the pokeball. I also like how there are legitimate businesses based off Pokemon that produce Pokemon products, such as Silph Co. and Devon Corporation. That, for example, makes me think what businesses are in Mushroom City because there are sure a lot of skyscrapers on that race track in Double Dash. I like how despite having a strange premise which deals with hoards of magical creatures that are caught and trained, etc., the Pokemon world is a normal, functioning, realistic, and coherent world and not just a zany, down-the-rabbit-hole type world.

SMG basically answered the question of how Mario's world was made. The RPGs have loads of explanation behind various inner-workings, even if those are mostly self-contained within the areas those games take place in. Still, it's really that hard to imagine for oneself how the Mushroom Kingdom works based on it's appearance in SMRPG and PM1. I always though Mushroom  City was their Manhattan, and the businesses that exist there could be found simply by looking into the background or what-have-you (remember the Wiggler bus or the Goomba chocolate truck?)

« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 09:10:16 PM »
I'd hand over all creative control to Shigeru Miyamoto and tell him to give the series proper justice.

Honestly, my ideas would be utterly stupid and fanboyish, plus I'd rather let the guy who started it all end it instead of me.
As a game that requires six friends, an HDTV, and skill, I can see why the majority of TMK is going to hate on it hard.

« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2010, 09:11:51 AM »
Same for me, Trainman.
By the way, only the RPGs and mainstream Mario games are in the same continuity (this also mean Luigi's Mansion, Super Princess Peach, and Donkey Kong (GB)). Meaning that the Mario Kart series, Mario Party series, Mario vs. Donkey Kong series and other things aren't "canon".

Also, @above poster : only the very first part of World 1-1 is in the intro of SMG2. Then the path continues differently. So this is more a tribute than anything else.

I did a (current) map of the Mushroom Kingdom but I also based it on SMBZ and thus it doesn't count. Not that it matters anyway, as Nintendo will never show us a full map. However, it's confirmed the Mushroom Kingdom is on the north hemisphere of the Mushroom World and, because we'll see the full map of the planet in SMG2, we'll know the Mushroom Kingdom's shape (well, there are obviously many continents on the north hemisphere but it'll be one of those).


On-topic: what Trainman said.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2010, 11:05:50 AM »
Same for me, Trainman.
By the way, only the RPGs and mainstream Mario games are in the same continuity (this also mean Luigi's Mansion, Super Princess Peach, and Donkey Kong (GB)). Meaning that the Mario Kart series, Mario Party series, Mario vs. Donkey Kong series and other things aren't "canon".

Since when does Mario have an official canon with which to decide what does and doesn't fit? As far as we know, everything is "canon". More importantly, if there were an official "canon", why exactly are the games you just mentioned exempt from it?

« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2010, 11:12:07 AM »
^
You're right, forget what I said.

« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2010, 01:51:54 PM »
Everything that the Chef suggested. Indeed, a game filled with meta-references out the wazoo would make for a perfect sendoff.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2010, 07:03:08 PM »
There is no canon.
That was a joke.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2010, 07:15:51 PM »
I already beat you to the punch, Chup.

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2010, 08:23:54 PM »
It's getting hot in here.
Formerly quite reasonable.

« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2010, 09:34:57 AM »
There is no canon.

Hey, wait a minute ! You don't have the rights to consider "there's no canon" as a fact ! Nintendo never said there was a canon, nor that there was none, so we'll stop right here. Now let's talk about pancakes.

... I like pancakes.
Now let's go back on-topic.

I would like to give a continuity to the Mario series if I had to make the final Mario game, personally.
What would be much, much better would be a New Super Mario All-Stars, containg remakes of SMB, SMB2, SMB3, SMB:TLL, SMW, NSMB and NSMBW in SMG2-like quality. And, on a seperate cartdrige, the same thing for SM64, SMS, SMG and SMG2. And, obviously, the "last Mario game".

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2010, 10:39:26 AM »
There is no canon simply because Nintendo has never said there was. If they did, there would be a canon, and then they'd probably inform what is and isn't "canon". I mean Christ, this is Mario, not DC Universe or anything.

Now keep in mind, the lack of an official canon doesn't mean Mario games lack continuity at all. Otherwise we wouldn't have things like Fawful returning as the villain in Bowser's Inside Story and whatnot. It's just that the continuity is as loose as an episodic TV show and doesn't delve into details such as date of setting and such.

« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2010, 10:58:05 AM »
Won't stop some people from trying though. Miyamoto says there's a timeline to the Zelda series, but I find the games more enjoyable if I don't think about that. Just say Ganon stole the Triforce again and I'll be happy.
You didn't say wot wot.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2010, 03:33:58 PM »
Thing is, they've outright stated that Zelda does have an official canon. Then they promptly made it horribly inconsistent. So it goes.


Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2010, 06:06:38 PM »
Well, honestly, it's actually fun and interesting to try and string everything together, canon or no canon, Mario or not Mario.

Just because Nintendo didn't say Mario has any official canon and his games focus on light-hearted fun doesn't mean people are prohibited from coming up with their own ideas.

If Mario characters had some recollection of the past themselves, then that'd be cool. See, it could work well to be implemented into a game because it wouldn't hinder anything that makes the games great. If people caught the reference, then it'd be awesome for them. If they didn't, well, simply skip to the next text box without knowing and move on. That's all I'm really asking for, canon-wise.

When no one in the games has any memory of anything that's happened in the past, Mario seems to become less of a "person" and more of "the guy that exists solely for the purpose of navigating levels" and it makes minor characters seem even more placeholder-ish (read: pointless). (Also, don't pick that last sentence to pieces. I know Mario is fictitious.) I know that Mario doesn't say a word or really have a personality or whatever because the idea is that you're suppose to feel like Mario when you play the games. Sorry, but when I get immersed into a game, I don't feel like I'm the character I'm playing as. Being immersed makes me feel like I'm watching a movie of sorts with the ability to alter the way their quest is progressing while I'm enjoying the ride. I don't feel like I'm Mario; I feel like I'm Mario's friend, in a way.

I'm gonna stop here since another wave of laziness has come over me.
Formerly quite reasonable.

« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2010, 06:20:37 PM »
If Mario characters had some recollection of the past themselves, then that'd be cool.

Are you kidding? Mario games are FILLED with references to past games! I'd make a list of them, but that'd take a lot of time and research.

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2010, 06:29:54 PM »
You didn't read carefully enough, Dr. Echidna.

If Mario characters had some recollection of the past themselves...

Yeah, the games may have references to past games (which I love) that players recognize, but the characters themselves don't recognize these things. They seem to have no recollection of past events/areas/people/things which was the original point I was making.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 06:36:00 PM by Trainman »
Formerly quite reasonable.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2010, 07:50:24 PM »
Well, honestly, it's actually fun and interesting to try and string everything together, canon or no canon, Mario or not Mario.

Just because Nintendo didn't say Mario has any official canon and his games focus on light-hearted fun doesn't mean people are prohibited from coming up with their own ideas.

I wholey advocate filling in the blanks ourselves. It's just that when people do talk about it, they constantly refer to "canon" and "not canon" as if there's as an actual, official canon to base things on, which there clearly isn't, and that annoys me.

Quote
If Mario characters had some recollection of the past themselves, then that'd be cool. See, it could work well to be implemented into a game because it wouldn't hinder anything that makes the games great. If people caught the reference, then it'd be awesome for them. If they didn't, well, simply skip to the next text box without knowing and move on. That's all I'm really asking for, canon-wise.

Bowser and his minions always acknowledge past. He acts like kidnapping Peach is a daily chore at this point.

Luigi acknowledged Mario Kart, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis and Mario Party in Paper Mario.

Presumably Mario himself recalls past events, but we never get to hear him speak his thoughts on the matter.

Keep in mind, most of this occurs in the RPGs, where there's the most dialog and of course the most story with which to fill it with. The platformers delve into this less because....well, they're platformers, and they have less cutscenes, and the characters say less.

Not to mention, if done poorly, recollecting past events tends to come off like Family Guy cutaways minus the jokes. If they draw out recollections too much it just slows everything down. This is why I prefer past references to stay as simple little background bits that are only there for the player's enjoyment. We don't want this series turning into Sonic now, do we?

Quote
When no one in the games has any memory of anything that's happened in the past, Mario seems to become less of a "person" and more of "the guy that exists solely for the purpose of navigating levels" and it makes minor characters seem even more placeholder-ish (read: pointless). (Also, don't pick that last sentence to pieces. I know Mario is fictitious.) I know that Mario doesn't say a word or really have a personality or whatever because the idea is that you're suppose to feel like Mario when you play the games. Sorry, but when I get immersed into a game, I don't feel like I'm the character I'm playing as. Being immersed makes me feel like I'm watching a movie of sorts with the ability to alter the way their quest is progressing while I'm enjoying the ride. I don't feel like I'm Mario; I feel like I'm Mario's friend, in a way.

I don't think Mario was ever intended to be seen as a person within the context of the game. I've always felt that the character and I are one and the same no matter what game I play, especially if it's a silent protagonist, which Mario always is. Maybe it's a different strokes sort of situation.

« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2010, 01:47:28 PM »
If Mario characters had some recollection of the past themselves, then that'd be cool.

Actually, Bowser's Inside Story had quite a few moments like that, even from the Mario brothers themselves!

« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2010, 12:52:19 PM »
The same way David Chase wrapped up The Sopranos.

« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2010, 08:06:28 PM »
Mario says "Hey Wario! You're fat!" and Luigi laughs.
Dedicated, Awe-inspiring, Bearded...

« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2010, 06:45:57 PM »
The first thing I'd like to mention is that if I had to give the Mario franchise a proper send-off, I'd make a massive hardware-straining game that incorporates references, locations, items, characters, enemies and who-knows-what else from every Mario game ever made. It would have a graphical style somewhere between SMG and SSBB and the plot would be about Bowser gathering up an army consisting of all of Mario's previous villains in an attempt to get revenge for how-ever-many years of failure. Luigi, Yoshi, Peach, Toad and Wario would be playable. The world would be completely open-ended and feature even the most obscure locations such as Sub-Con and Mario Land. Mario would finally be able to use every power-up he's ever had access to in full 3D. Characters like Pauline and Wanda from Mario & Wario would have cameo appearances. This game would likely never get made, but the Mario franchise would likely not end any time soon.

The funniest thing about all the world-building and depth the RPGs maintain is that it's all done in jest. Things like that block university always came off as an affectionate spoof of continuity hogging, and in Mario's world, that's probably the perfect way to go about it.

The geography is never consistent simply for the sake of gameplay. However, it's not like they never refer to previous areas in newer games. Dry Dry Desert is implied to be the same place as Kalamari Desert (both are called "Kara Kara Desert" in Japan) and even features the same (or at least a similar) choo-choo train. The opening stage of SMG2 is a recreation of the first stage of SMB1. That's about all the consistency I need.

SMS was pretty much the only mainline Mario game to do such a thing. The RPGs also usually do that but they're kinda limited by RPG-style perspectives and geometries (M&L is from an overhead perspective and everything is all block-shaped). Super Mario Galaxy doesn't have to worry about this because it's set in outer space amidst a bunch of lost satellites.

SMG basically answered the question of how Mario's world was made. The RPGs have loads of explanation behind various inner-workings, even if those are mostly self-contained within the areas those games take place in. Still, it's really that hard to imagine for oneself how the Mushroom Kingdom works based on it's appearance in SMRPG and PM1. I always though Mushroom  City was their Manhattan, and the businesses that exist there could be found simply by looking into the background or what-have-you (remember the Wiggler bus or the Goomba chocolate truck?)


I'd love for the series to have an epic finale. Split into two discs, but made like one games. Mario and Bowser would have a climactic final battle, where both of them are in their ultimate forms. One would have to die, and... well it'd be awesome! ;)

« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2010, 11:32:18 PM »
I wouldn't wrap up the Mario series. That implies that the series itself has an intricate plot and developed characters, which it doesn't.

Series like Metal Gear Solid, Bioshock, and God of War get "wrap up" games.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2010, 12:51:22 AM »
Except they don't, because they'll keep getting interquels until the end of time.
That was a joke.

« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2010, 09:17:08 AM »
Super Mario Galaxy 4. That game would have to be on the Wii 2
This bridge - extends from Nebraska to CANADA!

« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2010, 11:54:07 AM »
Except they don't, because they'll keep getting interquels until the end of time.

Notice how I put wrap up in quotation marks.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2010, 12:14:12 PM »
This makes me think of the Metroid games, and of how many times they can plausibly bring back the eponymous creatures, since, y'know, they've been officially eradicated since way back in Return of Samus.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2010, 10:47:08 AM »
Except they don't, because they'll keep getting interquels until the end of time.
If its good enough for Street Fighter, it's good enough for Mario.

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2010, 11:58:45 AM »
Street Fighter has never had a "story-ending" game either.
That was a joke.

« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2010, 08:42:17 PM »
I like the "tie everything in idea" expect that it realistically won't happen (at least for awhile). Ironically, if you're trying to suggest making an "epic-storyline" it would be nearly impossible to tie everything in. And even if they made the game with no storyline it would be weird. Besides that, it would takes years to re-create every place Mario has even been in (or main places) in 3-D and with a matching style. How would SMB1/2/3 look in contrast to the SMS level? Also, for the game to make sense it should only include main games. But even with that, think of how limited it'd be. The first 4 games were all side-scrolling with minimal story and the next games were all 3-D and I can't see it being interesting if they combined them into one game.

Kimimaru

  • Max Stats
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2010, 10:53:47 PM »
I personally think it would be interesting to see how they would do all of that, if they chose to do it.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

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