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Author Topic: Sonic The Hedgehog 4: Episode I  (Read 5839 times)

« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2010, 10:42:33 PM »
I don't know about you, but discouraging aspects of a game are what drive me the most to come back and beat it. Yeah, its sucks to lose multiple times, but when you finally conquer that obstacle there really is no greater feeling in the world.

I figured someone who likes to complete a game 100% would understand that.
As a game that requires six friends, an HDTV, and skill, I can see why the majority of TMK is going to hate on it hard.

WarpRattler

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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2010, 10:48:56 PM »
Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/frustration
a deep chronic sense or state of insecurity and dissatisfaction arising from unresolved problems or unfulfilled needs
"Unresolved problems" sounds to me like I've got a pain of a boss to defeat. Let's keep practicing and kick some ass.

Any frustration generated while playing a game should be at your own inability, not at the game*, and that's what leads to you defining a section as challenging or difficult, while another, more skilled player might not find it to be a problem. Which brings us back to the bit that invalidates the original argument:

I really sucked at the special stages in Sonic 2
The problem is with the player, not the game. (My feelings on the Genesis Sonic games notwithstanding.)

*Disregarding the illogical notion of playing bad games or games so easy they're boring. And of course all of this only considers games that actually rely on player skill.

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2010, 12:48:24 AM »
It's interesting how much of an overlap there is between the people who beat up on Turtlekid on VGC for having different (and therefore incorrect and immoral) opinions than themselves and the people who beat up on Turtlekid on NatDT for being overly dogmatic and closed-minded to other people's viewpoints.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2010, 01:43:01 AM »
The irony is not lost on me, however I still think his ideas on rewarding game design are exactly backwards. Same way I feel about people who throw their controllers.
That was a joke.

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2010, 02:35:45 AM »
My point is, preference claims like "Blue is a pretty color" or "I didn't enjoy Portal" are a different category than truth claims like "The sky is blue" or "Ice cream cures cancer". Even if TK's political/religious/philosophical beliefs are wrong, it still makes more logical sense to say "No! The sky is never blue!" than to say "No! You did enjoy Portal!"

People can disagree and argue over opinions, but it can get way out of hand around here with everyone piling on and acting like TK is a horrible person for not having the same tastes as them. Can't we just agree that different people like different things, and that's okay?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 02:44:52 AM by CrossEyed7 »
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2010, 07:22:46 AM »
What's happening here, as with the Portal thing, is that I'm saying something against one thing, and people are assuming that I'm automatically okay with the other end of the spectrum.

Fact is, I don't prefer to play too-easy games.  In games with selectable difficulties, I start on the highest available difficulty (the issue I have with games sometimes making you unlock higher difficulties is one for another argument).  I also don't like too-hard games.  I doubt I'll ever even attempt Kaizo Mario World or I Wanna Be The Guy.  Again, the only real test I have for my continued playing a game is "Am I enjoying myself?"  If I find myself answering "no" repeatedly, then I am obviously not having fun with the game, so why would I be playing the game?

I don't know about you, but discouraging aspects of a game are what drive me the most to come back and beat it. Yeah, its sucks to lose multiple times, but when you finally conquer that obstacle there really is no greater feeling in the world.
Man, I dunno.  When I beat Metroid Prime 2 and Prime 3 on Hypermode, for example, the feeling wasn't good so much as "Well, that sucked.  Never doing that again."  If a game is too hard, even if I end up beating it, I just feel drained.

So, yeah.  While Super Mario Galaxy was a bit too easy for my taste, it was also quite enjoyable, and I'd still rather play that than Echoes on Hypermode.  Again, there is not necessarily a correlation between difficulty and fun.

It's interesting how much of an overlap there is between the people who beat up on Turtlekid on VGC for having different (and therefore incorrect and immoral) opinions than themselves and the people who beat up on Turtlekid on NatDT for being overly dogmatic and closed-minded to other people's viewpoints.
Haha, yeah, I first noticed that during the "Why You JRPG Lovers Suck" incident.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2010, 09:22:42 AM »
I had a thing written up and ready to post, but fell asleep without posting it. Oh well.

I was going to mention that the change made to special stages in Sonic 4 would have been one better solved with difficulty settings rather than making something that's too hard for a few people suddenly become too easy for most people.

I was going to mention that the main reason to jump on Turtlekid regarding his complaints about Portal was the fact that his complaints actually had nothing to do with the game and were all faults of his own (not liking KBAM, having an ancient computer). Just like his complaints about the Sonic 2 special stages relate to his own lack of skill rather than the game being too difficult or poorly-designed.

To an extent, Turtlekid is right about games that are too hard; there is such a thing as "unfair" or artificial difficulty, and games created with the aim of presenting such typically aren't fun. Both of his examples show exactly this - Kaizo Mario World and I Wanna Be The Guy are designed solely with masochists in mind. But these games are very extreme examples for that reason. Most "hard" games are designed such that they can still be finished by a normal player with enough practice. And when that final victory occurs, it really is great; hopefully you're playing a good game and are happy about your accomplishment rather than being happy it's over.

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2010, 02:30:25 PM »
To get back on the subject, I don't like the Sonic 2 Special Stages either.

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2010, 09:18:49 PM »
I kinda like them, but that's probably nostalgia talking (2 was my first Sonic). I think 3&K got the best balance of difficulty and doability and fast-pacedness and skill. 1's were a bit random and annoying, and the format was much better suited for fun, unimportant bonus stages in K. 2's were alright, but did feel a bit unfair and frustrating at times with all those bombs.

Advance 1's special stages were way too frustrating. Advance 2's I only ever got to once, if even, and I've never gotten to an Advance 3 special stage. 4's are good, if unoriginal. They're like Wolf in Brawl -- something new would have been nice, but for something that's just a minor tweak on what we had before, it's a very good tweak.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

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