Author Topic: Two Ganondorfs!!??? (Read 9109 times)

King Boo · « **on:** April 12, 2003, 07:44:45 PM »

I saw this subject on the Hyrule Town Square
Boards.I brought it here to see why you think ganondorf is in wind waker & in OOT!
I say he's immortal,but that leads me to something else!Theres 2 zeldas aswell because zeldas been in a lot of LoZ games...

Do you know when we die,we''ll be boos too?

Black Mage · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2003, 08:15:45 PM »

Hah, it's plainly obvious that the Gannondorf in Wind Waker is the very same as that in Ocarina of Time.

It's not that he's immortal, it's that of the Triforce of Power, possibly in conjunction with the being sent to the sacred realm. Actually, now that I think about it, Gerudo's (Spelling error, maybe?) tend to live quite some time. I'd assume that, and the Triforce of Power would prolong his life.

However, I'm very certain they're one in the same.

EDIT: I'd and I'm aren't the same word.

Edited by - Black Mage on 4/13/2003 7:09:56 AM

Dairy King · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2003, 10:27:55 PM »

Well, I read in Nintendo Power, Mr. Myamoto said that each LoZ game has a differnt Zelda/Link and that WW is s'posed to take place 100 years after OoT, but since G-Dorf's people live so long, I'd have to say its the same Gannondorf also.

Dairy King · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2003, 10:29:29 PM »

Well, I read in Nintendo Power, Mr. Myamoto said that each LoZ game has a differnt Zelda/Link and that WW is s'posed to take place 100 years after OoT, but since G-Dorf's people live so long, I'd have to say its the same Gannondorf also.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2003, 12:17:28 AM »

Oh, it's definitely the same old Ganondorf.

You can be silent and let the world think you are a fool, or you can open your mouth and remove all doubt.

King Boo · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2003, 03:42:52 PM »

But wouldnt Ganondorf get sick of fighting kids who look the same & have got the same name!?

Do you know when we die,we''ll be boos too?

Black Mage · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2003, 04:32:38 PM »

When I get sick of things, I don't go out and kill myself.

However, I think you may mean that Gannondorf is the same through out the whole Zelda series, in which case I'd say they're not the same. However, I'd also say that they're not in the same time-line.

The only games I can seem to relate are [OoT, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker] and [Zelda I and Zelda II]. Sure, there's talk of Link's Awakening in there, but meh.

Edited by - Black Mage on 4/28/2003 8:51:11 PM

Mario Master · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2003, 08:19:08 PM »

Ganondorf was sealed in time, so he didn't age, and Ganon is a supernatural being, so naturally he'd live longer.
The reason Ganondorf came out is because Ganon needed a right-hand-man for that time period, and Agnighm (spelling?) was dead. So he picked Ganondorf, the king of the Geredo (spelling again?) tribe. Then Ganondorf went out and did Ganon's dirty business for him. Likewise, in chess, you don't see the King going out first thing, he lets his cronies do the work until he's in severe danger, and he has the chance to attack. Anyway, Ganon and Ganondorf were sealed away in their little Barrier of Time by Zelda, and the Master Sword was the "key". However, when the Master Sword lost its power, Ganondorf broke free and threatened to destroy the world again.

Everybody has the right to stupidity, but you''re abusing the privilage.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2003, 09:03:11 PM »

Agahnim, and Gerudo.
What about A Link to the Past? Is Ganon in that game?

You can be silent and let the world think you are a fool, or you can open your mouth and remove all doubt.

King Boo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2003, 01:20:44 AM »

Mario Master,Ganon & Ganondorf are the same person! Ganondorf transformed into Ganon!!!
I guess youre right that he didnt age in the sacred realm...i think that ganondorf has been in it from the start,but he transformed into ganon before link found him!

Do you know when we die,we''ll be boos too?

Mario Master · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2003, 06:17:46 AM »

Well Ganon appeared in previous games BEFORE Ganondorf was born. You can't transform into someone else if you don't exist yet. I think what happened is this:
In the first LOZ, Ganon was defeated by Link with the "Magical Sword". The Magical Sword was not the Master Sword. Ganon was not killed, he just disappeared. Then, in AOL, he returned and once again tried to rule the world. Another Link rose and triumphed over him, but without the Master Sword. In LTTP, he broke free once again. He found Ganondorf and put him as his main man in his army. Like the Queen, only a man. Then, yet another Link rose, but too early. He found the Master Sword, but was too young to be the "Hero of Time", so his spirit had to be kept in the Temple of Light for 7 years. Once he rose, he defeated Ganon, and returned to his own time period. However, since this was before Ganon was defeated, he sent the Skull Kid to steal the Majora's Mask. He distracted Link long enough to nearly destroy Hyrule. Anyway, to find out more you'll have to play WW. I'm not spoiling it for anyone.

Everybody has the right to stupidity, but you''re abusing the privilage.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2003, 11:59:34 PM »

Wait a sec, OoT has the "first" Link in it, right? And am I correct that Majora's Mask has the OoT Link in it?
Then, there's TLoZ and AoL, which have the second Link, LttP has another Link and WW has yet another Link, somewhat in that order.
I could be wrong, but this is my understanding.
I don't know where the Oracle games and Link's Awakening come into all this, though.

You can be silent and let the world think you are a fool, or you can open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Mario Master · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2003, 06:17:18 AM »

I had the craziest idea: Have you seen the movie "The One"? Maybe there are different "Link Dimensions". Each dimension has it's own Link, Master Sword, and Ganon/Ganondorf. There is also the Dark World, where there was no Link so it was warped by Ganon's evil wishes. Anyway, each Link has to destroy Ganon, but in a different circumstance. LOZ, kidnapped Zelda; LttP, get the triforce back; Oot, save the entire world... etc. But one thing is for sure: the Link in Oot is the same as in MM. He has memories of Zelda giving him the Ocarina and memories of Navi.

Everybody has the right to stupidity, but you''re abusing the privilage.

Sapphira · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2003, 07:57:22 AM »

I thought Link was always Link, just at different times. (He does have that Ocarina of Time, right?) I dunno, I've never played a Zelda game, sadly. I have GOT to pick one up. (Although I HAVE played a little bit of WW.) *Sigh...*

--------------------
If things don''t go your way, just keep complaining until your dreams come true.

Black Mage · « **Reply #14 on:** April 17, 2003, 10:52:05 AM »

"In the first LOZ, Ganon was defeated by Link with the "Magical Sword". The Magical Sword was not the Master Sword. Ganon was not killed, he just disappeared."

Oh, that's not quite correct. Ganon WAS killed. In AoL, the enemies needed the "blood of the one who killed him", or Link, to revive Ganon. Hence, his return.

Personally, I'm sticking with my opinion that, unless noted earlier, that the games basically do not coincide in one time-line. But hey, this is my opinion.

Edited by - Black Mage on 4/17/2003 9:52:41 AM

Hirocon · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2003, 07:14:02 PM »

This whole topic is much ado about nothing. Obviously Nintendo did not originally care enough about the plots of the Zelda games to make them fit together linearly. I guess they tried with LOZ and AOL, but with LTTP they completely deviated. Not that that's really a problem. They are still great games. Having played through OOT and WW, it appears that Nintendo is starting to care about the plots, but what's the big deal? These games are about the LEGEND of Zelda. Legends are shrouded by time and interpretation and have many different versions. If they don't always make sense, deal with it.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2003, 09:52:06 PM »

Black Mage, are you meaning that they are all completely different timelines, or that they are in the same timeline, just being different Links at different time periods? That's what I think, anyway, except where indicated, like how we know the Link from LoZ and AoL are the same, and the OoT and MM Link are the same.

Lemme see here, I dug up this here timeline:

Link 1:
-Ocarina of Time
-Majora's Mask

Link 2:
-A Link to the Past

Link 3:
-Oracle of Ages
-Oracle of Seasons

Link 4:
-Legend of Zelda
-Zelda II

Link 4? Link 5?:
-Link's Awakening

Link 5? Link 6?:
-The Wind Waker

I think that's right, but I'm foggy on Link's Awakening.

Hirocon, I don't think that's right. I think Miyamoto originally wanted to have a bunch of different Links.

Boy, "Link" sure starts to look stupid written so many times in the same post.

Edited by - Chupperson Weird on 4/20/2003 9:02:42 PM

Screech · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2003, 11:49:07 PM »

I believe in the multiple link theory (though I used too hate it), but my timeline is a little different.

The first link is from occarina of time and majoras mask. most people agree on that.
but the link from link to the past couldn't have been link 2, because that would mean that link1 had to have a brother, (links uncle in LttP) which is impossible.
So I believe that link setttled down, and had two sons. one, named after himself, became adventurous like his father, the other, lived south of kakiriko.
The secoind link was from LoZ and AoL.
When he had a son, he, in the tradition of his family, named him link, and he lived with link2's brother(link3's uncle) and was in link to the past, and links awakening. then, his son did OoA, and OoS. then HIS son did the wind waker.
What bother's me though, is that ganondorf in the wind waker should not be ganondorf at all, but the pig we all know and despise,ganon(becuase the dark world changed him into a pig)

The world would be a much cleaner place if people would eat their own trash.

Sapphira · « **Reply #18 on:** April 20, 2003, 11:58:29 PM »

I have GOT to start playing the LoZ series games (I've wanted to, anyway, but haven't had the time or privilage). Right now the only consistant series I play are Mario, DK, and Banjo-Kazooie. But I *shall* pick up others and broaden my horizon!!

--------------------
If things don''t go your way, just keep complaining until your dreams come true.

Luigison · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2003, 10:22:53 AM »

I have played all of the console Zelda game and some of the GameBoy versions, but don't know much about their characters timelines.

A guy at school said he thought the games where actually about 400 years apart and each Link is in a later generation. But, that would mean that Link had at least one kid. With whom?

Anyway, how does the Phillips CD-i games fall into the timeline?

By the way, the first Ganon you fight in WindWaker is actually a Phantom.

------------------------------

"I believe that with this game you''''ll be able to feel the "newness" that was missing from Mario Sunshine."

- Shigeru Miyamoto on Super Mario 128

Black Mage · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2003, 12:14:01 PM »

When I say that they're not meant to be together in one time-line, that's exactly what I mean. I understand the confusion though, however, what I believe isn't quite the same as you, although, I would conisder your explaination a valid one.

What I believe is that none of the Zeldas are meant to be together, excluding the ones that are obviously intertwined.

The way you grouped the games, Chupperson Weird, is basically how I'd put them. With the exception of Link's Awakening, as I would group that with Zelda I and Zelda II. The only difference in my belief and yours is that there is no order. I don't believe they're meant to be all encompassed under one time-line. That's basically what I'm trying to say with this jumbled mess of a post.

Oh, and Luigison, I believe the CD-i Zeldas would be grouped with Zelda I and Zelda II, however it's only my speculation, so don't take it for solid truth.

Screech · « **Reply #21 on:** April 21, 2003, 01:39:26 PM »

I believe that the cdi games NEVER happened and am doing my best to forget their existance.

The world would be a much cleaner place if people would eat their own trash.

BooBuddy · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2003, 06:22:02 PM »

Really,I believe that all the links are in one timeline,just nintendo screwed up the timeline up.You see after AOL nintendo felt they made link grow-up WAY to fast,So they just continued screwing up the timeline.This(In my perspective)is the correct timeline

TLOZ(ledend of zelda)
LTTP(link to the past)
LA(link's awakening)
OOA(oracle of ages)
OOS(oracle of seasons)
AOL(adventures of link)
OOT(ocarina of time)
MM(majora's mask)
Then about 100 years later WW(Wind Waker)takes place beacause.....well dont wanna spoil it to anyone who dosen't own or rented the game.

as for gannon/gannondorf,I have no clue.I ownly rented WW and own LTTP so i dont know that much.....

Some things are better off unsaid

King Boo · « **Reply #23 on:** April 21, 2003, 08:31:29 PM »

I know that OOT is the first one,because ganondorf turned into Ganon,then stayed that way,as Ganon.Ive only played OOT,MM,OoA,OoS,WW & LttP.I dont know much...

Im the king,
you dino-guy,
ill smash you now,
so say goodbye!

Hirocon · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2003, 12:11:04 AM »

***************
*SPOILER ALERT*
***************

You people are searching for something that isn't there. Here is hard evidence that the Zelda games cannot cohesively be put into a linear timeline:

*At the end of LTTP, the essence of the Triforce claims that Ganon has been completely destroyed, and the credits claim that the master sword sleeps again forver. Thus, if the games are to fit linearly, LTTP must be the last of the bunch. But LTTP takes place in Hyrule, and Hyrule is destroyed and the end of WW.

*All games featuring Hyrule feature completely different Hyrules.

*Din, Nyru and Faror are given inconsistent roles in the different games. Faror is supposed to be the godess of courage, but in the oracle games she is referred to as the godess of passwords, and is represented in human form.

These are just games, people. They are not novels. They are about gameplay, not plot, and any plot that can produce the best gameplay can and should be used in any new games, regardless of its consistency with previous games.

Edited by - Hirocon on 4/22/2003 8:31:59 PM

King Boo · « **Reply #25 on:** April 22, 2003, 12:46:03 AM »

Great hirocon why didnt you say spoiler alert!!!!!!!???
I havent even got WW yet!!!!

Im the king,
you dino-guy,
ill smash you now,
so say goodbye!

Hirocon · « **Reply #26 on:** April 22, 2003, 09:33:09 PM »

Sorry!

Falco · « **Reply #27 on:** April 28, 2003, 09:02:47 PM »

There is an order to the Zelda games, Miyamoto said this himself.

OoT
MM
LoZ
AoL
LTTP

WW?

I excluded the Gameboy Zeldas because they're side quests and could fall in almost anywhere.

And it's unsure where WW lies right now, but people have been saying it comes after MM. The new Hyrule is built over the old one that gets flooded, and that's probably why the games after that had a Hyrule with slightly different geography.

There's always inconsistencies, sure, and there are other non-Miyamoto theories about the timeline. But he made the game, and he says himself that the games are connected like that, so that's official enough for me.

Edited by - Falco on 4/28/2003 8:08:11 PM

Hirocon · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2003, 10:48:40 PM »

****SPOILER****

At the end of WW, King Hyrule SPECIFICALLY SAYS that any newly discovered land will NOT be a new Hyrule. Myamoto can say what he wants. Perhaps he INTENDS for the Zelda games to fit together linearly, but they don't. There are just too many plotholes.

Edited by - Hirocon on 4/28/2003 9:49:52 PM

King Boo · « **Reply #29 on:** April 29, 2003, 01:08:40 AM »

I think WW & fopur swords are in there somewhere,one link did both quests.

Im the king,
you dino-guy,
ill smash you now,
so say goodbye!

Screech · « **Reply #30 on:** April 29, 2003, 05:56:58 PM »

Hyrule is destroyed? Awww maaaan. So much stuff happens that goes right under nose if you don't own a gamecube.

Another thing that bothers me is that link is an adult in ONE HALF of a game. Everyone treats him like he's always been the real link. I didn't even like the 64 link as much as the lttp link(I like the red hair). But myamoto knows best.

The world would be a much cleaner place if people would eat their own trash.

Edited by - screech on 4/29/2003 5:01:02 PM

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #31 on:** April 30, 2003, 07:19:50 PM »

Miyamoto has an I in it.
Anyway, yep, since I don't have the Wind Waker yet either, that really spolied it. Thanks.

gamemaster79 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 30, 2003, 08:28:13 PM »

To my it seems like the Link on Link's Awakening is one from a past Zelda game. Like the one from A Link to the Past. Also, you don't play as Link in Wind Waker. It's just some other kid dressed up like Link. About there being two Ganondorfs... There was acually something that said that would be a continuous number of Links and a cunsecutive number of Zeldas, but there would be one and only one Ganondorf Dragmire. In OoT Ganondorf gets sucked up into the one thing (I've never seen it, just heard it) making there no Ganondorf, just Ganon. Or did that mean that both forms got sucked up or whatever? Maybe Ganondorf escaped but in the form of Ganon. I wouldn't know much about the Ganon in WW because I rented the game and only saw him once.

Edited by - gamemaster79 on 4/30/2003 7:29:20 PM

Hirocon · « **Reply #33 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:11:19 PM »

Ganondorf has a last name??? When did I miss this???

King Boo · « **Reply #34 on:** May 01, 2003, 12:11:22 AM »

Whoa his name is Ganondorf Dragmire!?
Thatll be a cool username!

Im the king,
you dino-guy,
ill smash you now,
so say goodbye!

gamemaster79 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 06, 2003, 08:18:50 PM »

So as I said back there, there can't be 2 Ganondorfs because of what I have found. Remember that I never said there couldn't be 2 -Ganons-. That I'm know nothing about, there being two Ganons, that is. Maybe instead of there being to Ganondorfs there are acually 2 Ganons. I don't know.

King Boo · « **Reply #36 on:** May 07, 2003, 12:31:56 AM »

i found out today while playing Oracle of Ages(I played a file that had the code to go to holodrum from Oracle of Seasons)After I saved Nayru from Ambi's Castle from Veran,Nayru teleported myself,Ralph,(Nayrus long time friend)& herself,back to the Maku Tree(A female tree that watches over Labryanna)& Twinrova skizzed past on there broomsticks saying about a Flame of Sorrow
that will revive the Evil King!Obviously the Evil King is Ganondorf,or Ganon,so what im saying is Oracle of Ages & Oracle of Seasons is right after LTTP or Zelda 1.Im leaning more towards LTTP though.....

Im the king,
you dino-guy,
ill smash you now,
so say goodbye!

gamemaster79 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 07, 2003, 06:32:08 PM »

So that answers it! Twinrova made Ganon come back from that one thing he got sucked into or whatever! That clearly shows that the Ganon in WW is the same Ganon that was from OoT! You got it? Case closed.

The Big Boo · « **Reply #38 on:** May 07, 2003, 07:17:07 PM »

No, it doesn't. Ganondorf was freed because the Master Sword lost it's power.

Anyway, I agree with what Hirocon said a while back: the story keeps changing (Hyrule being flooded, Hyrule NOT being flooded)because the game is called The LEGEND of Zelda. Because this game series is supposed to be from long into the past, the Legend must have been passed down from generation to generation, and no one really knows the real story anymore, so there are many variations of the tale.

gamemaster79 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 08, 2003, 04:10:48 PM »

Oh, OK. In what game did the Master Sword lose it's power, Wind Waker? Hyrule was flooded?

Edited by - gamemaster79 on 5/8/2003 3:15:41 PM

The Big Boo · « **Reply #40 on:** May 10, 2003, 06:46:29 PM »

*****************SPOILER ALERT***************

Yes, Hyrule was flooded in the Wind Waker. And the Master Sword lost it's power in the Wind Waker, so Link has to get the Master Sword back to power by beating 2 dungeons.

Lizard Dude · « **Reply #41 on:** May 30, 2003, 03:42:59 PM »

I never looked at this before, but I just did and here's what I know. Don't worry, no spoilers allowed in my house.

Miyamoto once said he didn't want to pin the Zelda story down when asked about the story differences in the original, A Link to the Past, and Ocarina. As the Mario series also shows, his games sort of relate but there's definately no concrete continuity. The Zelda series, however, has been getting more and more "pinned down." I've played EVERY Zelda excepting the CD-i things and read EVERY manual and story. I've beaten them all except the NES ones. Here is THE deal:

There are three storyline dimensions that fit concretely together: the Original dimension, the Uncle dimension, and the Deku dimension. I randomly gave them these names one bored day in study hall.

THE ORIGINAL DIMENSION:
The Legend of Zelda
Zelda II: Link's Adventure
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening

THE UNCLE DIMENSION:
The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past

THE DEKU DIMENSION:
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time/Master Quest
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

As you can see, I think mainstream appeal and Capcom involvement has tamed the Zelda story down, since the latest seven of the eleven games have all been in the same dimension. Now for explanations.

THE ORIGINAL DIMENSION: This is easy. Zelda II says, "After defeating Ganon" and everything fits. Link's Awakening does the same thing.

THE UNCLE DIMENSION: The SNES ushered in a new age of technology and a new age of Zelda story. You have an uncle and Hyrulian history and the Triforce are different.

THE DEKU DIMENSION: The next game screwed up the story even more and you were a Kokiri with a dead mom and a history of Hyrulian war. Majora's Mask fits after that since you're living your seven years and looking for Navi and Epona. The Oracles fit with Twinrova and all, but I'm not sure whether they come before or after the Majora incident. Four Swords fits since you just go to a temple. And The Wind Waker wraps it all up with -ahem- direct references.

â€œIâ€™m a stupid fatty and I love to play with my Easy Bake oven!â€

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #42 on:** May 30, 2003, 11:36:25 PM »

Well, I have to say. That makes sense. I just need to play the ones I haven't played (All the games from the "Deku Dimension" except OoT and TWW, and TWW only at the store.)

King Boo · « **Reply #43 on:** June 09, 2003, 12:35:14 AM »

Deku dimension games best.:P

Lizard Dude · « **Reply #44 on:** June 11, 2003, 12:07:19 PM »

Very true, probably because they're all the most recent.

Zelda, like good wine, only improves with age.

â€œIâ€™m a stupid fatty and I love to play with my Easy Bake oven!â€

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #45 on:** June 12, 2003, 12:04:35 AM »

Heheh.