Mariology (serious posts wanted)

[EpicGyllynn]

S'ok. I just thought it would be funny to say.

Here's a thought: Why didn't the Star Spirits attempt to stop Bowser? Does the power of the Star Rod not stand against the power of creation?

I actually just started playing through Paper Mario on VC yesterday, and was wondering the exact same thing!

[EpicGyllynn]

S'ok. I just thought it would be funny to say.

Here's a thought: Why didn't the Star Spirits attempt to stop Bowser? Does the power of the Star Rod not stand against the power of creation?

I find it interesting that you chose the word "Creation"!  It got me thinking about how in SMRPG, Geno talks about a "Higher Authority", which made think about the Mushroom Kingdom/World's religion.  Any thoughts?

[The Chef]

The Star Spirits have nothing to do with galaxy creation. They only grant wishes. They wouldn't be able to stop Bowser unless the people of the Mushroom World wished for it.

And if they did, they got their wish because Mario was miraculously not killed by Kamek's attack at the beginning of SMG. Instead he met up with Rosalina and the Lumas and the rest is history.

This brings to mind something else. Does Mario always come out on top because everybody wishes for it? Does everything in the Mushroom World happen because of people's wishes?

[EpicGyllynn]

The Star Spirits have nothing to do with galaxy creation. They only grant wishes. They wouldn't be able to stop Bowser unless the people of the Mushroom World wished for it.

And if they did, they got their wish because Mario was miraculously not killed by Kamek's attack at the beginning of SMG. Instead he met up with Rosalina and the Lumas and the rest is history.

This brings to mind something else. Does Mario always come out on top because everybody wishes for it? Does everything in the Mushroom World happen because of people's wishes?

I didn't say they created the Mario Universe, I'm just curious as to the possible Theology denizens of his World have! Assuming, of course, that they have Religious beliefs.  Thoughts? 

[Alisbet]

I didn't say they created the Mario Universe, I'm just curious as to the possible Theology denizens of his World have! Assuming, of course, that they have Religious beliefs.  Thoughts? 

I would agree with you there. I mean, really, Mario always winning over Bowser because the people wishes for that to happen. I wonder what Bowser would do if he finds out about this.

[EpicGyllynn]

I would agree with you there. I mean, really, Mario always winning over Bowser because the people wishes for that to happen. I wonder what Bowser would do if he finds out about this.

Perhaps, for them, Wishes work sort of like Prayers.  I mean not every wish is always granted, right?  Just, was that "Higher Authority" that Geno mentioned the Star Spirits, or something else?  I always thought that the Star Spirits were sort of like Angelic Beings, and perhaps they have some limits on their Powers, too!  I know I'm thinking too much into this, but thats what makes it Fun!

[The Chef]

Geno was talking about the Star Road when he said "higher authority". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Mushroom World's theology is based entirely around stars, be they Star Spirits, Star Kids, Star Sprites or the Lumas. Heck, Super Mario Galaxy opens on the eve of a holiday where they celebrate the passing of the Comet Observatory.

[EpicGyllynn]

Geno was talking about the Star Road when he said "higher authority". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Mushroom World's theology is based entirely around stars, be they Star Spirits, Star Kids, Star Sprites or the Lumas. Hell, Super Mario Galaxy opens on the eve of a holiday where they celebrate the passing of the Comet Observatory.

I know that, I just wanted to delve a little deeper into it!  Do you really have to be so negative towards my ideas?  I mean, I just want to delve deeper into a subject that isn't discussed in-depth in the games, isn't that what this Thread is about?  No, I'm not trying to start an argument with you, I actually agree with many of your post on this Thread, I just wanted to contribute something to the discussion!

[The Chef]

But...that's really all the depth there is to it. Star Spirits and Star Kids grant wishes. Rosalina raises Lumas so they can grow into Galaxies and....Star Sprites apparently just sit around give advice....or something. :P

If you wanna talk about the wishing thing, then my guess is that they only grant super-important wishes or life-changing ones.

[CrossEyed7]

If you don't want to dig a little deeper than the bare text presented in the games, why are you in this thread?

Star Spirits and Star Kids grant wishes.

Are they the same thing? Do Star Kids grow up to become Star Spirits? Is there a succession of Star Spirits? Are the Star Pieces in SMRPG the same thing as the Star Spirits?

Rosalina raises Lumas so they can grow into Galaxies

Are Lumas related to Star Kids? How long ago did Rosalina's origin story happen (and is it meant to be metaphorical)? How were galaxies created before then? How was the universe created in the first place?

and....Star Sprites apparently just sit around give advice....or something. :P

If you wanna talk about the wishing thing, then my guess is that they only grant super-important wishes or life-changing ones.

Guesses and "or something"s are what this topic's about. So let's talk about them!

[By the way, if you're going to try to turn everything into an argument, it helps to at least contradict something someone said. When did anyone say it wasn't based around stars? Also, the Star Road is the higher authority? It's a place. Did you mean someone at the Star Road? Who's in charge of it? Also, do Rosalina and the Star Spirits know about each other?]

[Dr. Echidna]

...How was the universe created in the first place?

Erm ... we don't even know how our own universe came into existence. Why are we asking the same about a fictional one?

[The Chef]

I'm pretty sure Twink was made an honorary Star Spirit at the end of Paper Mario, so I imagine that it takes a certain amount of guts for a Star Kid to eventually become a Star Spirit. Since all of the Star Spirits appear to be different ages, there probably is some sort of succession going on there, though whether or not there can only be seven at a time is a mystery to me.

Geno specifically said that the Star Pieces are literally the pieces of the Star Road. How the Star Road is connected to Star Haven is another mystery, but my theory is that it's an actual road that connects Star Haven with other areas in the cosmos. Also, those little star-shaped thingies that connect Star World with the regular world in SMW are also called Star Roads, but I doubt there's a connection there.

The Lumas don't look to be related to Star Spirits outside of being star-shaped. One heavily resembles a Starman and exists soley to grant wishes, while the other looks more like a marshmallow and literally an infant galaxy/planet/comet/star/sun other celestial body.

The "higher authority" Geno was talking about was probably the Star Spirits, since Paper Mario establishes that they're essentially the top of the wish-granting heap. Since they're all wise and such, there's a good chance they know who Rosalina is, and since Rosalina pretty much created the universe, she probably knows about them.

[Weegee]

Another thought: While all Star Kids eventually ascend to become actual Stars, only certain ones are ever appointed to become Star Spirits.

Now, let's complicate matters by throwing 64/Galaxy's Power Stars into the mix.

[The Chef]

I thought the Power Stars were just objects used as a power source. There's 120 that protect the castle, 120 that power Rosalina's observatory, and 120 used to power the Starship Mario.

The real question is whether or not the Power Stars and the Starmen  commonly used for invincibility are one and the same.

[Weegee]

True, although their eyes seem to imply that they're sentient organisms, like Mushrooms or Fire Flowers.

As for Starmen being the same as Power Stars, it could easily be: If they can supply energy for enormous mechanisms, they can probably grant a single person temporary invulnerability.