Mariology (serious posts wanted)

[Robert]

- How baby versions of characters can appear in the same game as grown up counter parts (babies in Mario Kart DD, Mario Tennis,.. and others)

- What is Mario's relationship to Pauline? How does Pauline feel about Peach, Daisy? Pauline was Mario's first girlfriend, and yet here we are, 15+ years later, and he goes off to rescue her yet again when DK kidnaps her at the opening ceremony of Super Mini Mario World.

- How do pipes work?

- What is Mario's relation to Wario, if they are related at all, and what is Wario's to Waluigi?

- How come Nintendo refuses to give Toad his own game? Most of the other major Mario characters have spun off into their own series (DK, Yoshi), or have been playable in at least one other game, other than SMB2 (Super Princess Peach, Bowser Bros in PM2).

- My theory is that games like Mario tennis, Mario Kart or any other Mario sports game are not really canon, they're just fun spinoffs. There for, Nintendo can do whatever they want with the spinoff titles, even put baby characters in the same universe with the adult variations of themselves.

- I believe that Mario and Pauline have broken up. Why? Well, it's widely believed that Mario was born in the Mushroom Kingdom, but was taken to Brooklyn in the "real" world because it was too dangerous for Mario to be in the MK as the Koopas would surely hunt him and his brother Luigi down. Anyway, He was raised in Brooklyn, and eventually meet Pauline. Mario fell in love with Pauline, and the two promised to be together always. However, when mysterious creatures began appearing in the sewers, the mayor asked Mario to and Luigi to clean up the sewers. Before he went down into the Sewers, Pauline asked Mario if he'd come back alive. Mario promised he'd be back, but when Mario & Luigi found a green pipe that the monsters were coming from, and had no choice to enter it. The Mario Bros. went into the pipe, discovered the Mushroom Kingdom, and stopped the monsters from getting to the real world by destroying the pipe, but in the process, detroyed their only way to get back home. In the MK, Mario has reliezed he'll never get back to Brooklyn, and has moved on Peach. In Brooklyn, Mario & Luigi have been presumed dead, and Pauline has moved on to other men, like david hasslehoff.

Also, I believe that the events of MvsDK and it's sequal were dreams Mario had while in Brooklyn. I explain my theory a little more in Depth some other time, as it's getting late over here.

- In SMS, we see the inside of the pipes; they seem to have some sort of rainbow-colored goo at the bottem of them. I believe that all pipes that have this goo inside them will teleportthe person who jumped inside to another pipe somewhere that corresponds to that pipe. This would also explain why some pipes can take you somewhere when you jump into them and others don't; Some pipes have this teleportation goo inside them, and others don't.

- IN an NP comic, it explianed that Mario & Wario were friends as children, but Mario constantly Bullied Wario, whiched caused him to become a mean guy later on in life. As for the relationship between Wario & Waluigi, a NoE website described Waluigi as Wario's, "Dim-witted brother."

- No comment.

[The Chef]

Well, since we're talking about the scenery again, then I agree with this..

It would bring some sense into the craziness that is the Marioverse.

.. ok, so the 'verse isn't that crazy, there are just a few paradoxial things that I've been thinking about as of late..

- How baby versions of characters can appear in the same game as grown up counter parts (babies in Mario Kart DD, Mario Tennis,.. and others)

I like to think of those games as "inter-series crossovers" where various incarnations of the characters come together. Besides, you never see the Baby characters in the intro movies, right?

- What is Mario's relationship to Pauline? How does Pauline feel about Peach, Daisy? Pauline was Mario's first girlfriend, and yet here we are, 15+ years later, and he goes off to rescue her yet again when DK kidnaps her at the opening ceremony of Super Mini Mario World.

One of my thoeries is that Mario being with Pauline takes place in an alternate timeline of some sort. Same thing with the events of SML.

- How do pipes work?

I came up with this theory that the pipes have been there since ancient times and might have been built by an ancestor of Mario's.

- What is Mario's relation to Wario, if they are related at all, and what is Wario's to Waluigi?

I'm pretty sure Wario is really jealous of Mario so he likes to imitate him. Lately he seems to have grown out of that, unless WarioWare is in an alternate universe too. Same goes for Waluigi, who has me thinking that all the games he's appeared in are in different universes from the games he doesn't appear in.

- How come Nintendo refuses to give Toad his own game? Most of the other major Mario characters have spun off into their own series (DK, Yoshi), or have been playable in at least one other game, other than SMB2 (Super Princess Peach, Bowser Bros in PM2).

Well, there was Wario's Woods.

[Kojinka]

When I'm feelling silly, I like to think that Cranky(if you believe Cranky is the original DK from the arcade) and DK have a fancy for red cocktail dresses, considering that Pauline was wearing one each time she was kidnaped.

As to how Pauline made a comeback for MvsDK2(I've played the store demo so I have a good idea), I have two theories:
1. MK residents have discovered more dimensional warp zones, and Mario invited his old friend, Pauline, to the grand opening of his new toystore.  If that's the case, I hope the events of Mvs.DK2 doesn't sour Mario and DK's friendship.
Or 2. Mario just had another crazy dream.  The events of the original DK arcade game is probably a very vivid memory for Mario, and, even though he's with Peach now, he still, at times, longs for Pauline.  Hey, we know from SMB2 (even though it wasn't really a Mario game to begin with) that Mario can have some pretty wild dreams.

[BP]

I've recently theorized that The Chef lives in an alternate universe.

[The Chef]

So I like multiverses. Big whoop.

[NintendoExpert89]

M&LPiT supports the theory that the Baby versions of Mario and Luigi can exist alongside their older selves in sports games because they can come to the present to participate using E. Gadd's time machine.

About the multiverse thing...

I think that the two time periods in M&LPiT are in fact separate universes where the events figuratively happen at the same time ("The past, present, and future are all occurring at once"). The time holes in the game are examples of wormholes, which in theory are bridges from that connect two places in spacetime or can connect into another universe altogether. Wormholes are unstable however, since they can close up shortly after opening (demonstrated in the game's beginning, when the time hole disappears and the brothers are stranded in the past). Traveling backward and forward through time in the game is a matter of going from one universe to the other. The only convenient about this is that the time holes are situated (out of all places in the universe) only within the Mushroom Kingdom.

Why I think the events are all happening at once is because the events happen only according to the time frame of the game. For example, the time machine takes Peach goes into the past for a while (that "while" is that duration in the past when she is kidnapped and what not) and then returns, instead of returning immediately after leaving. To make this less confusing, think of it as leaving the present when a clock there reads 12:00 PM. You stay in the past for 10 minutes and then return to the present to find that the clock is now 12:10 PM.

[The Chef]

So you're saying that the "past" is really an alternatw universe where all the characters are younger? But didn't the characters in the "present" ever reference the events in the "past" happening already?

[NintendoExpert89]

The past is not an "alternate" universe per se. The "past" universe will become the "present" universe, as shown when the brothers travel through time and the filmstrip of the Mushroom Kingdom rolls and when E. Gadd's memories become modified due to disturbances in the past. They are two separate universes in the sense that the time hole has linked the two time periods as a "shortcut" through time and space, and the characters from both periods can meet with each other, as if they lived as next-door neighbors.

[The Chef]

So that explains why no paradoxes were created. Later on I'll have to post my own multiverse theories, but first I gotta organize them. For now, I'll tell you that I divided the Mario series into different "ages", like the the Golden Age and Silver Age, similar to DC Comics.

[CrossEyed7]

I think the sports games are set after the main games, when the Mushroom Kingdom and the Koopa Kingdom declare a truce, explaining why Bowser is with them, and Mario and Luigi have married Peach and Daisy, and the babies are really their kids.

[The Chef]

This is the start of my multiverse project. I will list all the important Mario games and state what universe they belong in along with any other infromation and chronological position. Ports, compliations and cameos will not be counted.

The Retro Age(1981-1990)

1981
Donkey Kong : This game is the first, and from here spawned all the other Marioverses. It takes place on World Zero, the place where Mario appears as a carpenter and dates Pauline.

1982
Donkey Kong Jr. : A continuation of DK 1. DK Jr first appears here.

1983
Donkey Kong 3: Another continuation of the DK franchise. Jumpman Mario isn't here though.
Mario Bros. : Mario is a plumber here, and works alongside Luigi. This game takes place on World I and serves as a precursor to the SMB series.

1985
Wrecking Crew : Mario is a construction worker here and has a rival in the form of Foreman Spike.
Super Mario Bros. : The first in the SMB series, which are set in World I.

1986
Super Mario Bros. 2 : By SMB 2, I mean the original Japan one. More or less a drect continuation of the first. Bowser disappears for a while after this.

1987
Golf US Course & Golf Japan Course : I think these were Japan-only, but we got NES Golf to compensate. This stars Golfer Mario.

1988
Super Mario Bros. 3 : Set after SMB2J and features the return of Bowser and his Seven Kids.
Return of Mario Bros. : This did not happen directly after the first MB, as some think, but actuall happned after SMB3, as evidenced by the opening cutscene.

1989
Super Mario Land : In this game, Mario saves Daisy from Tatanga. More info on the world it's set in later.

1990
Dr. Mario : Probably the first recognizable glimpse of another Marioverse. This world's Mario is a virus-busting doctor.
Super Mario World: Sequel to SMB3. Mario meets Yoshi here, who also has his share of other-world counterparts

[yoshimastar]

Bowser just couldn't have participated in the sports games.

Or at least still be in the games because of who he is and what he's done.

[The Chef]

Time to continue with my project. I'll list each "Age" in a different post.

The Revolutionary Age(1991-2000)

1991
Mario Open Golf : Golfer Mario returns. This game has a UK course.
Yoshi's Egg : An egg-stacking puzzle game. I can't decide what 'verse to place it in.

1992
Mario Paint : Not really a game. I don't even know if it should be considered canon.
Super Mario Kart : This can be considered the series' first actual crossover, as DK Jr. is playable here. Unless this DK Jr. is different from the one in World Zero.
Super Mario Land 2: : This one establishes that fact that the SML is set in another world where Mario owns his own land and has a rival in the form of Wario.
Yoshi's Cookie : Set in a universe where Mario is a chef at a cookie factory and Yoshi is his assisstant.

1993
Yoshi's Safari : This is probably set after SMW, as the Koopalings have returned, and Yoshi looks raptor-ish.
Mario & Wario : This stars the World I equivalent of Wario, who is villainous like his SML counterpart.

1994
Super Mario Land 3 : A continuation of SML 2 starring the SML Wario.
Wario's Woods : Toad gets lost in Wario's dark woods. Set in World I.
Donkey Kong '94 : An extention of the DK arcade game. Possibly a new universe that sort of combines World Zero and World I, as it has elements from both.
Wario Blast : Wario finds his way into the Bomberman universe. Not sure which Wario it is. He has a penchant for conquering, so it may be the World I Wario. Maybe he never came back.

1995
Mario's Picross : A world where Mario and Wario are archelologists.
Mario's Tennis : A Tennis follow-up to SMK. Same cast and everything.
Yoshi's Island : The beginning of a new universe, where Mario was born in TMK. I shall call it World II.
Mario Clash: Mario drives Bowser's minons out of the Clash House. Apparently set in World I.
VB Wario Land: Wario gets caught in an underground cave full of treasure. He seems more like the current Wario, so maybe this is set in a new universe.

1996
Super Mario RPG : An epic tale full of new characters. Might be set in a universe all it's own, considering the number of differences between it and other games.
Super Mario 64 : Another milestone of a game. Not sure whether it's set in World I or World II, though.
Tetris Attack : Set in a world without Mario. Yoshi defends his tropical home from Bowser.
Mario Kart 64 : This one is most likely a crossover. Wario and DK are in it, but this DK is Rare's version, which I haven't gotten around to examining yet.

1997
Yoshi's Story : This obviously happens after Yoshi's Island but before everything else.

1998
Wrecking Crew '98:The plot of this game supposedly revolves around Bowser asking Foreman Spike to build him a new castle and Mario having to destroy it. Not sure if it should be placed in World I or World II, but it's definitrly not in the same universe as the original WC.Wa
Wario Land II : I consider this a sequel to the VB Wario Land as opposed to SML3, since the Wario is this game is greedy rather that villainous. Plus,
the baddies are called the Black Sugar Gang instead of Brown Sugar Pirates here.
Mario Party : I'd bill this as another big crossover, but the DK here could theoretically be the SMB one instead of the DKC one.

1999
Mario Golf 64: Another crossover. This time Camelot placed a few of their own characters in it.
Mario Golf GB : This is important because it doesn't even center on Mario, it probably even takes place in the Real World. It also gives us a peek at exactly how the universes are connected, which is in the form of rainbow-colored doors that lead to rainbow-colored bridges, possibly the Rainbow Road from MK64.
Mario Party 2 : Sequel to MP1. Maybe this one is set in another universe since it involves all the Mario characters setting up a theme park.
Super Smash Bros. : Although it's technically not a Mario game, I list it here because it seems liek some sort of Crisis on Infinite Earths-type event in which the universes are merged together. However, the multiverse stil seems to exist afterward. I think Melee may have been the real big merger and not this.

2000
Wario Land 3 : Sequel to WLII. I once thought that maybe WLII was set right after SML3 and this one established a new universe, but whatever.
Mario Tennis 64 : A key crossover. First of all, we have Waluigi, who probably only exists in the World II universe, since he doesn't appear in the Wario games, which can be set in their own universe. Second is Daisy, who seems to partnered with Luigi here. She might be a different Daisy than the one in SML1. Last is DK Jr., who appears as DK's son, meaning that the DK in this game is the one from the DK'94 universe.
Paper Mario : I like to think that this exists as a work of fiction in the main Marioverse, but technically can be counted as it's own universe in that regard.
Mario Party 3 : I'm starting to wonder whether or not the MPs should be considered canon or not, since the characters act lot more firendly to one another than they do in the other games.

[Toad]

I like your theories, Chef, but there is no need for all of these "World zero, one" things. It's very easy to explain wihtout the Worlds..

With the exception of Yoshi's Island, the games could have just happened in the order they came out in. Tetris Attack doesn't happen in a universe where there is no Mario, he just wasn't present there when Bowser attacked YI and the Yoshies defended it.

Mario has been (in order of game relase) a carpenter, a construction worker, a plumber, a doctor, and he golfs, races karts, and parties in his free time.

[The Chef]

Well, you see, I'm planning to state exactly why I came to those conlusions later on. First I have to list all that games. Eventually I'll make a list of all the "Worlds" (universes) and the Marios that occupy them. Here's more games.

The Modern Age(2001-present)

2001
Dr. Mario 64 : This one confuzzles me. Doc is the star, but the rest of the cast is made up of characters in WL3. What universe is it in?
Mario Kart Advance : Another one of those speshal crossovers.
Wario Land 4 : I'm pretty sure this is a direct follow-up to WL3, but signs point to it being set in the universe I was planning to place WarioWare in.
Luigi' Mansion : This one is kinda ambiguous. I guess you could say it's in World II, since that's the main series at this point, but it doesn't explain why the Gallery Ghosts are human or whether or not Bowser was truly dead before the events of this game.
Super Smash Bros. Melee : Now this is important. This seems to be the really big crossover that merges all the universes together, and not just the Mario-related ones. Heck, I think some of them may have been destroyed.

2002
Super Mario Sunshine : Next game in the series. Bowser Jr. makes his grand debut.
Mario Party 4 : I think you now what to expect from one of these by now.

2003
Wario World : Another Wario game in the Warioverse which takes place after WL3.
WarioWare Inc. : I believe this one establishes another Warioverse. It's vastly different from any other Wario game.
Mario Golf TT : This one is intriguing as Diddy Kong appears as a playable character. However, since this was released after Melee, it could be said that all of the different DK storylines were merged into one, justifiying his appearance in the Mario verse rather than the DKCverse.
Mario Party 5 : The Star Spirits as well as a bunch of other characters who only appear in certain universes show up here, only it doesn't necessarily have to be a crossover due to the events of Melee.
Mario Kart DD : This may seem like the oddest place to mention this, but perhaps the multiverse still existed after Melee, as evidenced by WarioWare. It just got downsized a little bit. Maybe Brawl will fix that. ;)
Mario & Luigi : I'm having a bit of trouble deciding whether this is in the main universe or in a new universe because of things like the Koopalings. Then again, it could be argued that Melee caused them and Bowser Jr. to be able to coexist. Either that or Cackletta knows some trans-dimentional magic.

2004
Mario Golf AT : Another one of those games set in the "Real World". Or at least an alternate version of it as depicted by Camelot.
Mario vs. DK : Had the events of Melee not happened, I'd have placed this game after DK '94 in it's own universe. But since the Melee incident, DK's origins seem to have been combined. Or maybe not.
Paper Mario : Apparently the PM universe still exists, unless this happened in the main universe.
Mario Pinball Land : This one seems like it happened right after SMS, so I'll go with that.
WarioWare Twisted : A follow-up to the last one. You may notice I'm going by the Japan release dates rather than the USA ones.
Mario Power Tennis : An interesting thing about this is the appearence of "Ware" Wario in Wario's court. This sorta contradicts all the other stuff in here that hints toward there being a multiverse. Maybe WW isn't set in it's own universe after all.
Mario Party 6 : This games talks about some sort of "Mario Party World". Maybe that's the place where these are set.
WarioWare Touched : Next in the WW line-up. I guess the sign in MPT could be counted as not having been there, but tha takes the fun out of it.
Yoshi Topsy-Turvy : This one hints that the TA universe still exists, as it looks like YI but Bowser is an adult. Plus, there's a bunch of characters that don't appear anywhere else.

2005
Mario Party Advance : This game was crap, but it's still the next in the Party line. (Heh, I made a funny.)
Yoshi Touch & Go : This takes place during the events of YI. Nothing sepesil other than the fact that World I and World II may have been merged together after Melee.
DDR Mario Mix : As odd of a genre choice it masy be, it still counts. What I find odd is that Peach and Yoshi are nowhere to be found.
Mario Superstar Baseball : This one points to there not being a merger after Melee. since it makes reference to Wario owning his own company and DK having an ancestor who wore no tie. If there were no merger, this would be considered a crossover. Actually, I have a way to explain thing for every game after Melee in the case of it not merging the worlds. Maybe the worlds that were destroyed were somehow brought back.
Mario Tennis PT : Next in the series of games in Camelot's "Real World".
Super Princess Peach : Easily set in the main series. Almost had the Koopalings in it. Thank the lord they didn't make it or I'd be stuck (unless I used my Melee theory).
Mario Party 7 : This one appears to be centered around alternate versions of places in the Real World. I can't think of a way to explain this...
Mario Kart DS : Another Karting game. Really awesome at that. Happens to contain references to World I stuff, which would cause me to call this a crossover if my idea about Melee was somehow disproved.
Super Mario Strikers : Some would say that the characters don't really act like themeselves in this game. Perhaps we have another new universe on our hands.
Mario Kart Arcade GP : Now this one has to be a crossover. Pac-Man is in it.
Mario & Luigi 2 : Gives us a look at World II Mario's past, probably the only legit varation of it if my Melee theory holds true. If it's not the past, it's another universe where all the characters are younger.

2006
New Super Mario Bros. : Ah, the return to the glory days of World I. BJ is here, so it can be set in World II, or the "New World" that was created after Melee.
Mario Hoops 3-on-3 : Apparantly a Mario-FF crossover, with basketball.

And that's it for games lists. Keep in mind that there's still new games coming out, so I'll have to add them after I play them (Yes, I have played all the games on this list, save for the ones only available in Japan).