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Author Topic: Super Paper Mario - Chapter 6 - Not a plot hole (Spoilers)  (Read 7379 times)

Kimimaru

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« on: June 24, 2008, 03:58:30 PM »
After reading a recent mailbag, one person was asking why Mario and friends were spared after Sammer's Kingdom fell victim to The Void. After not finding the answer before asking, the person considered it a plot hole. I have found some evidence that it isn't a plot hole. I'm not 100% sure about this right now, but if you directly quote what Merlon and Nolrem said, it gives you a little of an idea:

Nolrem: "At the Duel of the Hundred, the hero will meet with dark powers of purest chaos. If you fall to the Hundred, the chaos world grows and the Purity Heart fades. And as that happens, the hero will fall to the world where all games are ended."

According to Nolrem, we can conclude that Mario and friends have a 100% chance of getting this pure heart, because if he gets the pure heart before Sammer's Kingdom collapses, then he is victorious. At the same time, if he fails, the Pure Heart in that area fades (loses power) and Mario goes to where all games are ended, also known as The Underwhere. With our knowledge of the games future, we know that Queen Jaydes brings Mario back to Flipside and restores the Pure Heart's power. Simply put in storyline terms: Mario will get the Pure Heart.

Merlon (before you go into the door leading to Sammer's Kingdom for the first time): "When seeking the Pure Hearts in a world on destruction's brink, perseverance is key."

Apparently, Mario and friends have to never give up if they want the Pure Heart. With in-game knowledge of what happens after you enter the door, we know that Mario and friends tried as hard as they can to get the Pure Heart, even if it seemed impossible. Apparently, according to the Light Prognosticus, it is foretold that the hero WILL survive if he has this trait.

We know that Mario failed and retrieved the faded Pure Heart, but how did he get to The Underwhere after that? We thought the Light Prognosticus foretold the hero going to "the world where all games are ended." Something happened to get them where they need to go. Dimentio comes in and sends them to The Underwhere. But, if Mario is dead, how does he save all the worlds? That's where putting this all together comes in:

Before Sammer's Kingdom gets destroyed, Mario and friends were trying their hardest to get the Pure Heart. With their perseverance, they were supposed to survive the destruction, and get their hands on the faded Pure Heart. Mario and friends needed to get to The Underwhere when they were still alive, so someone was foretold to send them there by different means; in our case, Dimentio coming in and sending them there. Still being alive and having the faded Pure Heart revived after all of his time in The Underwhere, Mario can now continue to save the universe.

I know all of this isn't completely accurate, but it clears up the confusion of it simply being stated as a plot hole. Any help would be appreciated.

And for the question by the same person about the marriage of Peach and Bowser, it doesn't exactly say that the marriage was canceled, but at the same time it didn't say it was official. I think they realized that the marriage was fake, and was held only to use the Chaos Heart's power.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 05:23:44 PM »
Very good! Now the problem...

It works, but it's a "Impossible event Happens because important guy said/did so."

Ex. Wizard suddenly pops out of nowhere. Wizard removes impossible to pass barrier for hero.

« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 05:38:29 PM »
But then again, this is fiction isn't it? That will answer that. Anything can be removed.

« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 05:42:49 PM »
Yes, but PERFECT fiction won't have crud like that.

Ahhh! No pitchforks!! Super Paper Mario is a good-OWW! Don't poke me so hard! Eh-uh don't poke me at al-owww!!!!

« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 05:44:00 PM »
Fiction can't be perfect. Nothings perfect!

« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 05:45:00 PM »
Sigghhhhh...it's not about that. NEAR perfect fiction won't have semi-plot holes like this.

« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 05:47:55 PM »
Mmmmmm... Good point. But...hmmm..........................

[5 hours later]

............. I got it! [Nintendoobseesed] Wha! Ok. [Me] Its actually a puzzle that Nintendo put in (accidentally as a puzzle) and had people think long and hard about, while Kimimaru, the Paper Mario expert, came up with the answer in about 0.00000001 seconds.

Kimimaru

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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 06:59:50 PM »
Very good! Now the problem...

It works, but it's a "Impossible event Happens because important guy said/did so."

Ex. Wizard suddenly pops out of nowhere. Wizard removes impossible to pass barrier for hero.

Do you mean Dimentio popping up and sending everyone to The Underwhere? If so, then it's not a problem; Dimentio only did that in hope of gaining the Chaos Heart's power by letting the heroes defeat Count Bleck for him. It's a plot twist, not a plot hole.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 07:24:51 PM »
I'm talking about them survivng the world collapse.

Kimimaru

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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 07:45:39 PM »
I'm talking about them survivng the world collapse.

That's exactly what this entire thread is about. I said that I believe they survived because the Light Prognosticus foretells that the hero will survive if he has hope in his heart no matter what. This didn't happen because someone said it; it's part of the game's storyline. Another possibility is that the Pure Hearts could have protected Mario and his friends.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

Fifth

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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 08:20:57 PM »
I always kinda thought that it was because they were outsiders to the world that they were thrown from it rather than destroyed with it.  They entered through the door as visitors, and were ejected back through it when there was no longer a world to visit.
Go Moon!

« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 08:35:20 PM »
That's exactly what this entire thread is about. I said that I believe they survived because the Light Prognosticus foretells that the hero will survive if he has hope in his heart no matter what. This didn't happen because someone said it; it's part of the game's storyline. Another possibility is that the Pure Hearts could have protected Mario and his friends.

<.< Let's start over.

The Light Prognosticus said/read it, which makes the story cause it. And Mario didn't have complete hope. He knew something bad was going to happen, and he was scared, even just a little bit. If you play as one of the other characters, they'll say "We're not gonna make it?". Mario was probably thinking the same thing. Too even QUESTION it...that's still a little hope gone.

Kimimaru

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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 11:00:53 AM »
Yes, but when he was in Sammer's Kingdom, he didn't give up.

I respect you voicing your opinion on the game's fiction, but I don't agree with it. I believe this game, along with all Mario games, has very good fiction.   
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2008, 12:55:25 AM »
I'm pretty sure Tippi teleported Mario and friends back to Flipside before they fell victim to The Void as she did when they first got to Outer Space.

Kimimaru

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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2008, 09:45:56 AM »
I'm pretty sure Tippi teleported Mario and friends back to Flipside before they fell victim to The Void as she did when they first got to Outer Space.

That is another possibility that I thought of myself. Unfortunately, Tippi never hints that she did that after everyone is back at Flipside. I'll ask Nintendo about this.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

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