Poll

Do you think Guitar Hero, Rock Band, et al get people interested in real music or keep them away from it?

Music games are usually a great motivator to learn music and/or start a band!
2 (40%)
Music games can inhibit/encourage one to hold back real musical skill!
2 (40%)
Some combination of the above.
1 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 5

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Author Topic: GH, RB, etc: Band Makers or Breakers?  (Read 7351 times)

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« on: July 28, 2009, 11:15:00 PM »
Maybe it's a little late to ask the question, but what do you think? Personally, I believe GH, RB, and the like are a great way for anyone (but primarily kids) to segue into playing an actual instrument and maybe strike up their own band. That's probably not always the case, but not to such a degree that I'd go with the second option.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

SolidShroom

  • Poop Man
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 11:27:10 PM »
All of the members of my band played guitar hero/rock band during or before the development of their instrumental learning and as far as things go, it definitely helped my drummer a lot  rhythmically and I've gotta say it at least expanded my musical tastes at the very beginning. Of course I the drummer and I had both played instruments before these games. I mean, they're alright as a musical stepping stone, but they're not an instrument and are getting way too serious.

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2009, 12:12:44 AM »
I started playing actual music when I was 5.
That was a joke.

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2009, 12:39:56 AM »
Well, it seems that the majority of people will say (almost guaranteed if they play the respective instrument):

"DUR YOU POSERS... ACTING AS IF YOU CAN PLAY THE ACTUAL INSTRUMENT LOLOLOLLOLL I AM SUPERIOR. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING {{YNGWIE MALMSTEEN'S}} SOLOS SINCE BEFORE I WAS BORN. TRY PLAYING THE ACTUAL INSTRUMENT NEXT TIME LoL!! I BET YOU COULDN'T"

Nah... we just like matching colored buttons... or like 99% of the people, we just like the music/we like to play games... perfect combination. We're not trying to act as if we could play a guitar or bass. We're just playing the friggin' game!
Formerly quite reasonable.

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2009, 10:47:07 AM »
And then there are the idiots (I've met them) who think they're actually playing stuff.
That was a joke.

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2009, 09:15:32 PM »
Yeah, I agree it's stupid. People getting super into the game are annoying, especially if they start jumping around or when they finish the song they have this serious, cocky look on their face kind of implying, "Yeah.. I'm bad. I just beat this song."
Formerly quite reasonable.

Forest Guy

  • Anything else?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 12:08:46 AM »
Yeah, like Chupperson said, I've run into people who are convinced that because they can play drums in Rock Band they're drummers in real life.

Basically I think it doesn't have any effect though. I think the people who do that are stupid regardless and wouldn't pick up a real instrument anyway. I get pumped while playing Hysteria like everyone else playing Rock Band, but it's the same sort of pumped as when I beat someone who challenged me to a duel in Smash Bros. To me, it's just like playing The Sims or an RTS or other simulation stuff. It's simulating some real life activity (in this case a band) in game-fashion which can be quite fun for people who don't have the opportunity to do so.
= = = = = = =
Agender, curry fan, Top 10 lister, indie dev, gym hitter, musician, et al.

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 10:56:15 AM »
Drumming in Rock Band is a lot closer to real drumming than playing guitar in any of these games is to real guitar playing.

RTS as analogue to real life? Exactly what "real life activity" is being simulated when one plays StarCraft? Building refineries on vespene geysers? Zerg rushing? Being owned by Korea?

(Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that I use StarCraft as an example too often.)

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 01:11:34 PM »
Music games are just like any other video game. They let you pretend to be doing something cool without having to spend ten years learning how to do it for real and with all the boring parts removed. I don't know why so many musicians feel the need to point out that people playing Guitar Hero aren't really playing guitar; I don't see any soldiers constantly complaining that playing a FPS isn't like really shooting or Emeril and Rachael Ray telling us that Cooking Mama isn't real cooking or the bald Six Flags guy saying that RollerCoaster Tycoon isn't real theme park management. Maybe it's just that it's new.

Yes, people who think they can actually play guitar because they can play Guitar Hero are annoying, but rarely are they as annoying as this guy:



Most people are just playing it to have fun by pretending to be real rock stars. Video games are escapism. The people who act like they seriously are rock stars are annoying, but there are people like that in every video game fandom. The incidence of them among Guitar Hero players may be a bit higher than the norm because it, like the PlayStation did in the 90s, has expanded the audience of video games to include a lot more idiot frat boys, the same way that Nintendo is expanding the audience to include moms.

Anyway, to answer the question, they may be motivators for getting into it, and the dexterity one develops from doing high-level songs could be adapted to an actual guitar with enough training, but there are few real transferable skills -- probably even less than FPSs, Cooking Mama, and RollerCoaster Tycoon. I also think that they may inhibit musical skill by not allowing any creativity in the main game. Wii Music would actually be a significantly better game for training musicians -- it takes real creativity and musical knowledge to make something like this or this.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 01:41:52 PM »
Indeed, that is one of my main beefs with the game engine -- in real life, playing a note slightly off tempo does not result in horrible squawkage. That type of penalty works fine in other rhythm games, where the point of the game is not to act like you're playing the music, but to simply keep up with the beat/precise timing and do things to interact with it. But real music doesn't require you to be precisely on tempo. And rock musicians very rarely are.
Also, quite agree with Wii Music/creativity.
That was a joke.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 02:13:17 PM »
Leave it to me to take the middle ground.

Honestly it differs from person to person. On one hand you've got ******bags who think that getting a high score on a hard song is on par with being a genuinely good musician (i.e. anybody who actually cares about ScoreHero or leaderboards or what have you) and go OH MY GOD OH MY GOD I JUST BEAT THROUGH THE FIRE AND FLAMES NOW I WILL DEFINITELY BE ABLE TO GET A GIRLFRIEND. On the other, you've got ******bags who think that the only people who play music games lack any skill or appreciation of music just because they're playign a simuluation of the real thing. I think that, yes, music games have caused these viewpoints to become more widespread. Personally, although I don't own any GH or RB games anymore and have generally lost interest in both series, the only reason I do play either is for fun.

I wonder if DJ Hero is going to get real-life DJs all riled up.
every

Forest Guy

  • Anything else?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 04:26:09 PM »
RTS as analogue to real life? Exactly what "real life activity" is being simulated when one plays StarCraft? Building refineries on vespene geysers? Zerg rushing? Being owned by Korea?

It's a simulation of fighting a war. I (hopefully) will never have to be in a position where I'm directing troops around on a battlefield, but it's fun to do it as a simulation in a game. It's just like Chupperson and CrossEyed said. We play games to do something we typically are unable to do in reality, or at least without a lot of work.

Though to be honest, I don't run into a lot of people who think they're musicians because they play Rock Band, or who think they'll get a girlfriend because of it. I guess that's because I don't spend a lot of time hanging out with middle school students. Either way, the majority of people I know who are really into Rock Band (myself included) are already great musicians who enjoy the game because they already like music.
= = = = = = =
Agender, curry fan, Top 10 lister, indie dev, gym hitter, musician, et al.

« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 04:33:56 PM »
CE7 states the truth of the matter perfectly. (Only thing I disagree is that RB skills are definitely more applicable to real instruments than FPS skills are to real shooting.)

I don't think Glorb is right that people who care about leaderboards think they're "a genuinely good musician". I think they're trying to set high scores in a videogame and know this.

On a somewhat related point, beating "Through the Fire and Flames" on Expert is more difficult than playing many, many real songs on many, many real instruments.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 05:08:06 PM »
I didn't say people who care about leaderboards think they're genuinely good musicians. Many score-obsessed people think that tapping buttons in time with an onscreen prompt made by somebody else is in the same skill ballpark as composing actual music, or even just playing actual music. It's not. It's often harder, but any monkey can get good at pressing buttons rapidly if you give him enough time.

TL;DR - Skill does not equal talent.
every

« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 05:30:57 PM »
Ah, you're saying the games have the skill of playing an instrument but none of the art. And you're completely correct.

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