Poll

Tiers?

They exist and are a major factor in the outcome of a Brawl.
They exist, but player skill will always have more impact.
They exist, but only under the conditions set by competetive players (no items, Final Destination only, etc.)
They don't exist.
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Author Topic: Tires don exits?  (Read 13052 times)

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« on: May 20, 2009, 07:29:14 AM »
I've seen several discussions touch on the subject before, but to my knowledge, there has been no topic created for the discussion of the existence (or nonexistence) of tiers.  Specifically tiers in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

What do you guys think?

I'm of the personal opinion that yes, tiers do exist.  Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me say that from personal experience and a crapload of Brawls with various matchups, I did notice that I had a tendency to do better with, say, Snake than Lucas (in case you didn't know, Snake is the second highest-ranking character on the tier-list, while Lucas is of middling tier, if I remember correctly).  That was just an example.  In general, I do much better with higher-tier characters, such as Falco, Meta Knight, and Snake.

What I don't believe is that tiers in themselves decide the outcome of a match.  It may be cliche, but:

Skill > Tier.  In fact, Skill >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tier.

I have seen a person on Smash Boards (an extremely pro-tier, competetively minded site) say that those who make the above statement do not understand tiers.  However, I like to think the concept has not eluded me.  Rather, you might say that this person and people like him do not understand skill.

While I admittedly do better with higher-tiers, I've still won many a match against a high-tier character as Captain Falcon or Ganondorf (the the two lowest-tier characters).  This leads me to believe that tiers simply do not hold as much weight as some suggest they do.

How about you?
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

jdaster64

« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 09:14:22 AM »
A level-9 Captain Falcon can beat a level-9 Meta Knight on Final Destination, itemless. So skill must be a major factor.
If she is indeed genetically mutated such that she has an eye in the back of her head, then I guess that she is genetically mutated and has an eye in the back of her head.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 09:46:30 AM »
Tiers are absolutely not important in Brawl because none of the pr0s play it.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 09:52:02 AM »
Not as much as Melee, but there are Brawl tournaments, are there not?
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Black Mage

  • HP １０１８ MP ６８５
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 10:38:58 AM »
Tiers do exist and there are "pros" that play Brawl.

Tiers have nothing to do with CPUs.

A skilled player can win against a high tier character with a low tier character.

I've played on the competitive level, more-so in Melee than in Brawl, and I can say with experience that the company is not all that great. In my opinion, the competitive Smash Brothers community is honestly one of the worst in regards to the character of the players out there. Maybe not the level of MvC2, but pretty close.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 01:51:33 PM »
Character tiers, to me, are the dumbest thing ever, though that's because I view SSB as quicky party games. It amuses me very much when I hear people go through the the "Fox only, no items, Final Destination" spiel and be absolutely serious about it.
every

PaperLuigi

« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 02:30:01 PM »
Tiers exist, but I don't really give a [darn]. I just play to play.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 06:08:55 PM »
I thought tiers were something people made up. Can you really say they "exist"?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 06:14:37 PM »
The term "tier" is made up, yes, but the concept it defines is not.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

PaperLuigi

« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 06:24:10 PM »
Basically...if the two best players in the world were using Captain Falcon and Snake, the Snake player would win.

Skill plays a factor in all matches EXCEPT when two people of equal skill are playing against each other. That's...basically what the concept of tiers defines.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

nensondubois

« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 07:02:59 PM »
They don't exist.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 08:43:26 PM »
Is this title supposed to be mock Latin or really bad grammar?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 08:52:32 PM »
Quote from: PaperLuigi on May 20, 2009, 06:24:10 PM
Skill plays a factor in all matches EXCEPT when two people of equal skill are playing against each other. That's...basically what the concept of tiers defines.

But really, how can that be said? The Brawl characters are different enough that you'd just as easily be trying to say for sure that a person grocery shopping is being just as productive as a person mowing a lawn. So different.

And when if gets down to it, tiers are pointless. They don't dictate every matchup listed as they are. "Equally skilled" players of Meta Knight and Captain Falcon may come out with Falcon the victor if Captain Falcon is the "better" of that matchup. Tiers just count up the matchups in which the character is "superior."

But for Meta Knight it really revolves around Meta Knight revolving around in the whorenado.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

PaperLuigi

« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 09:25:27 PM »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Rao

  • Arr! Ay! Oh!
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 09:41:34 PM »
Spelling incorrectly deliberately is not cool.
What's your problem, Cambodian?
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