Poll

Religions should...

stay out of politics
12 (52.2%)
be taxed
0 (0%)
both
6 (26.1%)
neither
5 (21.7%)

Total Members Voted: 23

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Author Topic: Should religions stay out of politics or be taxed?  (Read 27785 times)

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2008, 08:01:07 AM »
I think it's Turtlekid, not us, who needs to be restrained from killing people if that's his overall view of things.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2008, 08:08:41 AM »
Quote from: The Chef on November 04, 2008, 07:57:10 AM
It's wrong because there are just some things you shouldn't do. God or no God. Why can't you comprehend that?

Come one, back up your answer!  Why don't you support your argument?  Huh!?
Isn't that what I was getting attacked about a while back?
No one has answered my question yet.  WHY IS ANYTHING RIGHT OR WRONG if everything is the result of an accident?
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2008, 08:24:56 AM »
I'll answer your question with another question to put things in perspective. Pretend you don't believe in God, just for a second. Not a militant anti-religious nut, just some regular schmo who happens not to be religious.

Got it? Good.

Now, pretend you've got a family. A wife, and two kids.

Got all that?

Okay, now say burglars break into your house, tie all of you up, beat you half to death, rape and kill your wife while you watch, and finally walk out of the house with both your kids and $5000 in stolen property.

So far, so good?

Now, as you lay there bleeding to death, being the hypothetical aetheist that you are, would you simply say, "Eh, what can ya do. This was all the result of an accident anyway."?

In other words, people define what is right and wrong. People have emotions, and when those emotions get hurt, after a while, we found out what actions hurt us and decided we shouldn't let people do those things.
every

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2008, 01:41:45 PM »
To answer your question, I wouldn't word it like that, but if I didn't believe in God, I would have no right to decide whether the burglar's actions were right or wrong.  Sure, it would pi$$ me off, but who's to say it's morally wrong (kind of like High School Musical)?  Maybe that burglar had a reason for robbing my house.  Maybe he was desperate (I admit, the fact that he raped my hypothetical wife and kidnapped my hypothetical children would suggest otherwise). Why do I have any more of a right to my stuff than him?

Yes, people have emotions, but they are only imperfect versions of the perfect ones God feels; our emotions are biased one way or another and aren't always (never) completely just.  That's why God decides what is right or wrong, not us.

It's not because our emotions/bodies/property/family/whatever gets hurt that something is wrong.  It's because the wrongful action was an act of disobedience.  It's because God's absolute law was violated.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2008, 02:01:54 PM »
It's official: Turtlekid can't think for himself.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2008, 03:03:27 PM »
Because I believe in a sovereign God whose law is absolute?  No, that's what is known as obedience.
And if your kind of thinking is the alternative, I'm fairly certain I don't want to "think for myself."
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Markio

  • Normal
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2008, 03:04:47 PM »
Everyone here thinks; therefore we are!

Clap clap clap laugh laugh.
"Hello Kitty is cool, but I like Keroppi the best."

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2008, 06:04:13 PM »
From here on out in my life, I am using "Turtlekid" a synonym for "stereotypical religious sheep".
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2008, 06:21:26 PM »
You say that like it's a bad thing (mind you, "stereotypical" is probably a bad thing).  Anyone who has even touched a Bible knows that we're supposed to be God's sheep.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2008, 06:45:16 PM »
Whoa... didn't know you were supposed to take it up the tailpipe from God.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2008, 07:18:54 PM »
What am I taking up the tailpipe, exactly?  Why is the concept of willful obedience so hard for you to grasp? 
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2008, 09:08:36 PM »
Why is the concept of playing by your own rules so hard for you to grasp? SB and I and many other believe we don't need a God to tell us what do to. We think for ourselves.

Markio

  • Normal
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2008, 10:08:05 PM »
But similarly, many people are religious because they choose to be.  It's not very different from choosing to be atheistic or anti-religion.  Being religious doesn't mean you don't think for yourself.  Yes, Turtlekid's "opinions" are almost directly in line with his religion, but that's because he thinks that those ideals are favorable.  I mean, would any of us like Sprite if it wasn't hyped up and valued as a premium beverage in our society?  Isn't that a form of thoughtless opinion?
"Hello Kitty is cool, but I like Keroppi the best."

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2008, 10:15:08 PM »
I only take issue with the ridiculous idea that these things are not intrinsically bad, but only bad because God says so. They would be bad either way, as any sane person can understand. My mind boggled at Turtlekid's notion that he wouldn't have any more right to possess the things he legitimately owned than the guy who stole them from him.
That was a joke.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2008, 11:25:31 PM »
To-Do List:

1) Rob Turtlekid
2) Buy a six-pack of Sprite
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef
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