For or Against?

[Luigison]

... homosexuals/*******s ... homosexual/******* ... gay ...

Interesting censorship.

Aaaaaand the "Against" argument has been lowered to its original standard.

[11:39] <Luigison> pt_peach obviously did not read the rest of the for or against thread

... bible ... Same Sex Marriage ...

Hmmm.  Interesting use of caps.

[Vidgmchtr]

It always urks me a little when people say something along the lines of "I'm okay with homosexuals, just not their behaviors/lifestyles etc.", because that, to me, sounds like the most oxymoronic (may not be a word, but you get the idea) thing I've ever heard.

It's like telling someone who IS a homosexual "Man, you're a great person, and I've always thought of you as a great friend. I just don't want you to get married with your boyfriend." all while keeping a stupid grin on your face.

Also, not every homosexual guy has the lifestyle of "Shopping, fashion, shoes, sex with guys!". There are lots of homosexuals who are just like us, as in, geeks/nerds/dorks who enjoy video games, computers, 1337-speak, etc. etc., the only obvious difference being that they are attracted to members of the same sex. Some are into drawing and other arts. Some enjoy sci-fi stuff. Heck, I'm sure there are tons of homosexuals who are strictly religious Christians, who are just as against gay marriage as others.

So, why say you're against their lifestyle, when some of their lifestyles are almost exactly the same as yours (except the whole being attracted to members of the same sex thing)?

Just a little thing for you guys who said something like that to think about.

[CrzyFlmngMnkyHead]

Let's see what my family/friends have to say about same sex marrige...

Dad: I just hope the government dosn't legalize it.

Mom: They're not right people.

8-year-old brother: Gay is a bad word! Don't say it!

1st Friend: Gays are dumb.

2nd Friend: Good thing I don't have any gay friends...

[Hirocon]

Also, I think the government is making too big a deal of this. Shouldn't they be trying to stop murder,  war, theft, hate crimes, etc. not same sex marriage?!

I'd rather have the government try to prepare us for peak oil, or at least acknowledge its existence.

One thing that really bugs me about the government's response to gay marraiges is the hypocrisy of those who want to ammend the constitution to ban gay marraige.  I've heard many conservatives say that the issue of gay marraige would ideally be left to individual states, but a constitutional ammendment is needed because activist judges are striking down bans on gay marraige against the wishes of the citizens.  Seeing as gay marraige is currently legal in only one state, I don't really see any epidemic of activist judges on this issue.  But, even if there were such an epidemic, if conservatives really wanted to leave the issue of gay marraige to the states, then they should propose a constitutional ammendment saying something to the effect of "there is no constitutional guarantee of a right to marraige, and laws restricting marraige rights on the basis of gender are not unconstitutional" or something like that.  Then activist judges could not claim that laws outlawing gay marraiges violate the constitution, and the issue really would be left to the states.  That's not what conservatives want.  They want a constitutional ammendment explicitly defining marraige as a union between one man and one woman.  Such an ammendment would not leave the issue up to the states.

[Insane Steve]

Let's see what my family/friends have to say about same sex marrige...

Dad: I just hope the government dosn't legalize it.

Mom: They're not right people.

8-year-old brother: Gay is a bad word! Don't say it!

1st Friend: Gays are dumb.

2nd Friend: Good thing I don't have any gay friends...

Dad: Erm, I think the more accurate statement is "I just hope the government makes it illegal." There's no national statute against it. Although, I think it's more a state issue in its current form, and I think it's presently only legal in Massachusetts.

Mom: "Not right people?" Who are you to act like you're morally superior to people you don't even know to decide who's "right" and who isn't?

8-year old: Gay is a bad word to use in an insulting manner, I agree. "This is gay." No substance. At all.

Friend 1: Wow. I've like for you to pull up a proven, valid scientific study that definitively proves an inverse correlation between homosexual tendencies and IQ. Please? I don't think one exists.

Friend 2: Erm, gay people don't act very differently than straight people in mutual friendships. At all. What's with the prejudice?

Please refrain from posting in the thread until you have something VALID to say. "Gays are dumb" is not a valid point. In fact, it's probably THE example I'd use to show someone the absolute worst way to argue a point. As an aside, I can see where you get your prejudices from.

As for Sapphira's post... I'll respond to it when I have the time. It's a very well thought-out post, and I figure I should dignify it with a genuinely thoughtful response.

[Luigison]

Please refrain from posting in the thread until you have something VALID to say.

Although I disagree with each of the family and friends statements, I think it was important to see the environment around the poster.

[Koopaslaya]

DOing all the thinking on it that I have been doing. I choose to not really have much on an opinion, because I'm not gay. Therefore, I don't know what it is like at all. I can not make a judgement either way.

[Insane Steve]

Hmmmmmmm... I read it as a "The people I'm around agree with me!" post, not a "This is what everyone I'm around thinks, hence why I think" post. If it is the latter... then... ya. It's valid in that respect, and I lashed out a bit quickly.

Course, if you're trying to use those as arguments against gay marriage, they really aren't very valid.

[CashCrazed]

Well, all I did was glance at Sapphira's post and noticed that most of it revolved around the connection of marriage to the Christian religion. While the Christians are the vast majority in the country, the principles of democracy are "majority rules, minority rights", and it seems like homosexuals are having the right to marry the person of their choice stomped on here.

Then again, marriage as we know it today only came into being as a Christian practice. The fact that this "marriage" concept exists at the state level in the first place clearly shows influence and bias toward Christianity. Oh well, the American government has always favored Christianty since its inception, despite the 1st amendment forbidding it. What can ya do?

[Sunbun]

I think that one show on Bravo changed the public's appearance of homosexuals. Though I, honestly, don't care either way, I'd like to hear people's opinions on homosexuality before this whole "boom" occurred.

It'd probably be not entirely different, but it seems like more people have a stronger opinion on this topic nowadays rather than thenadays...

[Sapphira]

Um, the 1st Amendment doesn't forbid Christianity or Christian influence; it says we have freedoms to believe and practice what we want (within reason--like, you can't go violating the other amendments and laws).

The whole intent of the "separation of church and state" ordeal was so that the government could not have control over the church, not that all principles of Christianity or other faiths should have no influence or standing in the government. The founding fathers who wrote the Constitution were very religious people, and it had a big influence on the laws and rights and other governmental things of our nation. Look at our currency and Pledge of Allegiance. Their faith was very intertwined with our government.

Vid: The problem is when people are hypocritical or are lying to their faces. You can care about a person and not like their actions at the same time. Also, the "lifestyle" has to do with their ***ual actions, not their hobbies or unrelated interests or personality.

[CashCrazed]

Um, the 1st Amendment doesn't forbid Christianity or Christian influence; it says we have freedoms to believe and practice what we want (within reason--like, you can't go violating the other amendments and laws).

It does forbid Christian influence on the government. The 1st amendment verbatim:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice the first part. It says no law should relate specifically to any religious establishment, and the laws of marriage certainly do.

The founding fathers who wrote the Constitution were very religious people, and it had a big influence on the laws and rights and other governmental things of our nation. Look at our currency and Pledge of Allegiance. Their faith was very intertwined with our government.

Exactly. Seems contradictory for a country promoting religious freedom, doesn't it? I'm agnostic, and I'm tired of Christianity being pushed on me. Now I can take the Pledge of Allegiance and the print on our currency. That's easy to tolerate. But I draw the line when my own freakin' state tried to pass a resolution declaring Christianity to be the "official" religion of the state(Yes, Missouri actually proposed this).

[AbercrombieBaseball]

My friends and family have also spoken (though it was two years ago during the election, but my friends pretty much never change). I did a school project that year and had to interview 20 people (I did 23 because I included my family). Had to dig this up but thought I'd post it here.

Mom: It's wrong. Just read your Bible.
Uncle: No way. It's man and woman.
Cousin: Eew! I'd never date another girl.

FRIENDS:
Dude #1 (pretty liberal): Yeah, sure, if they want to do it.
Dude #2 (very liberal): This is America, do what you want!
Dude #3 (moderate): We don't need any more fruitcakes! No to gay marriage!
Dude #4 (very conservative): Nothing good comes of bending rules. Ban it now.
Dude #5 (sort of a hippie): As long as everyone's happy, they can do it.
Dude #6 (conservative): No, gay marriage is bad.
Dude #7 (claims to be communist): Gay marriage is wrong.
Dude #8 (moderate): I'm against marriage but they can live with each other.

Chick #1 (very conservative): No way. Read your Bible.
Chick #2 (conservative): No, it's morally wrong.
Chick #3 (conservative): Gay marriage is not a cool thing.
Chick #4 (moderate): They can live together, just don't get married.
Chick #5 (liberal): Yeah, go for it. They have rights too.
Chick #6 (apathetic): No, because it's never been a custom.
Chick #7 (conservative): Gay marriage is wrong both politically and morally.
Chick #8 (very liberal): Why can't gays and lesbians have rights too?
Chick #9 (claims to be conservative): Um, it's fine.
Chick #10 (liberal): Fine by me.
Chick #11 (moderate): No way. No gay marriage in America!
Chick #12 (conservative with a hippie mother): Gay marriage would never work. So no.

[Markio]

With the rising divorce rate nowadays, with all these unhappy spouses and such, I doubt there will ever be anymore gay marriages...

[Lizard Dude]

Regarding the "God made a man and a woman" argument:

As the story goes, there were only two people. These two had to breed to create the entire human race. Since humans reproduce sexually, the two had to be of different sexes. Therefore, God had no choice but to make a man and woman. So of course there is no Adam and Steve. Humanity would have died and God would have been like, "Oops."

But now there are lots of people. Now there are too many people for the planet to sustain. God sees this and has to fix the problem somehow. To fix the problem, God starts making more and more of the population "sexually" interested in the same sex. Because of this, they will experience the same happiness of a serious relationship, but not be able to reproduce. The population shrinks back to a manageable size, and no one is prevented from having a serious, sexual relationship with a loved one. Everyone wins!

Man, God sure is smart to create homosexuals.