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Author Topic: Confess!: (became a) Religious Discussion  (Read 22793 times)

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« on: May 12, 2011, 01:26:12 AM »
I almost don't want to post this because... honestly I don't know why. For some reason I feel nervous about telling people things about myself like this, even if those people are near-complete strangers and the things I'm saying can't really come back to hurt me in any way. Or at least not any way I can think of. Anyway.

There have been a lot of times lately when I've done something I know I shouldn't, gotten angry at myself for it, decided to do something about it, not done anything about it, rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Mostly this has to do with school. There have been a couple classes that I've not worked at hard in as I should, and I know it, but I continue to slack off. And my grades show it, I failed English at the end of 12th grade, failed a programming class last semester (and I'm majoring in computer science, go figure), got a D in calculus, and I'm on my way to failing calculus 2 this semester. I kinda hate myself for doing this same thing over and over. I don't really have any excuse for it.

I have a hard time showing anything creative that I've done to other people. I think it's out of fear that whoever I show it to won't appreciate it, but whenever I think that I ask myself "Seriously? Is that any reason to keep all this to yourself?" Because of that, there are a bunch of things that I've wanted to do for the longest time but have been too nervous to do. Things like playing music or drawing or writing. Basically anything that I could point to and say "I did that." There's not much I want to do more right now than learn how to play an instrument or how to draw, but I won't let myself because I don't want to have to show other people that I've done anything. I love when I show something to someone and they like it, or even if they don't like it but can tell me how to fix it. I just don't like actually showing things to people. I used to take piano lessons in third grade, and I loved playing the piano, but I absolutely hated recitals. Having someone ask me to play something for them, in the way family members do, was even worse. I'm still that way and I don't know why and that bothers me.

I'm a Christian, but I don't like identifying as such. Being Christian isn't the most popular of ideas. I've never been directly ridiculed for it, but I'm always afraid that I will. The most common belief, at least among non-religious people, seems to be that religion is only for "the weak", people who can't decide for themselves what to do with their lives, etc. I hate the idea of being labeled like that. My closest friends, and even some of my family doesn't know that I'm a Christian. Religion is supposed to be one of those things that you're not ashamed of, right? So why the hell can't I get myself to stop being ashamed of it?

So yeah, that's my stuff. For some reason I'm thinking these problems are pretty common. If they're even problems at all. I don't know. I'm kinda depressed now.

tl;dr: I have insecurity issues, but I doubt I'm the only one.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 09:02:26 PM by BP »
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 06:48:55 AM »
tl;dr: I have insecurity issues, but I doubt I'm the only one.

BriGuy92, I've been through much of what you're talking about and know family members, cohorts, and students that have had similar issues.  From what I can tell it's normal for some and possibly most people.  Particularly I've noticed the lack of drive and fear of rejection in myself and other people with authoritarian/oppressive fathers or other family members.   Some of it is genetics.  You are born with a certain personality.  Some of it is epigenetics.  If you drink alcohol at a young age or do a lot of short term/multi-tasking then time-consuming creative tasks will lack appeal.  I know all of these from my personal experience and they may not relate to you, but I think a similar set of solutions may work regardless.

First, I suggest you do something new and exciting.  Parasailing and Bungee jumping are two ideas.  It needs to be something with a perceived risk that gives you a rush and leaves you excited.  Don't use drugs, alcohol, or anything artificial though.

Second, do something big you've seemingly always wanted to do.  For me things like writing a story, having relations with a female, being publish, moving out, taking a trip, building a house, etc. 

Third, do something religiously.  This doesn't have to be Religion.  Maybe exercise, read, write, fish, music, art, etc.  The point here is to keep yourself busy. 

You don't have to do all three of these or in the order I listed, but they worked that way for me and a few other people I know. 
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 08:00:00 AM »
I have a hard time showing anything creative that I've done to other people. I think it's out of fear that whoever I show it to won't appreciate it, but whenever I think that I ask myself "Seriously? Is that any reason to keep all this to yourself?" Because of that, there are a bunch of things that I've wanted to do for the longest time but have been too nervous to do. Things like playing music or drawing or writing. Basically anything that I could point to and say "I did that." There's not much I want to do more right now than learn how to play an instrument or how to draw, but I won't let myself because I don't want to have to show other people that I've done anything. I love when I show something to someone and they like it, or even if they don't like it but can tell me how to fix it. I just don't like actually showing things to people. I used to take piano lessons in third grade, and I loved playing the piano, but I absolutely hated recitals. Having someone ask me to play something for them, in the way family members do, was even worse. I'm still that way and I don't know why and that bothers me.
I know how this feels, having dealt with (and still dealing with) the same things.  As to why you don't want to put yourself out there: if you're anything like me, then the feeling you get when someone rejects or otherwise dismisses your creative efforts is one of the worst in the world.  Eventually you'll have to force yourself to be more bold.  If you're honestly not confident in your abilities, then practice.  In my experience, a lack of talent is just a lack of practice.  But sooner or later you'll have to show the results of that practice.  And I don't think it's humanly possible to not feel nervous when you do, but don't let the nervousness cripple you (and admittedly, I'm guilty of this too and should follow my own advice).  Just remember - while rejection may be one of the worst feelings in the world, having someone like your work is one of the absolute best (okay, so part of the reason this put me on cloud nine is because I have this thing for Emmy, but still).

I'm a Christian, but I don't like identifying as such. Being Christian isn't the most popular of ideas. I've never been directly ridiculed for it, but I'm always afraid that I will. The most common belief, at least among non-religious people, seems to be that religion is only for "the weak", people who can't decide for themselves what to do with their lives, etc. I hate the idea of being labeled like that. My closest friends, and even some of my family doesn't know that I'm a Christian. Religion is supposed to be one of those things that you're not ashamed of, right? So why the hell can't I get myself to stop being ashamed of it?
Well, the truth is that religion is for the "weak" - but not in the way most would define "weak."  Everyone is weak in the sense that it's not possible to be self-sufficient enough to be completely self-sufficient.  But I digress. 

I guess you have a few choices here, that I can think of.  Either you can keep it under covers for the rest of your life (probably not too psychologically healthy to have to keep that kind of thing a secret from those close to you), or you can just not care what people think (while it's good to be proud of your faith, being defiant about it probably won't earn you any friends), or you can trust that people will be understanding.  Often, people aren't.  But if these people are close to you, then I should think they'll at least try to understand.

In any case, don't be ashamed.  These days you'll often hear people say "I'm not a Christian, I'm a Christ follower," as if the former should carry any connotations other than the latter.  Somewhere along the way "Christian" became a negative label even for Christians.  Don't let other people's interpretation of the word shame you.  Just make sure you follow Christ and do your best to help the people you know follow Christ and then trust Him for the rest.  It's harder than it sounds, but not impossible.

Third, do something religiously.  This doesn't have to be Religion.  Maybe exercise, read, write, fish, music, art, etc.  The point here is to keep yourself busy. 
This.  Do something to distract yourself, even if you think you'll hate it (if you find you don't like it after trying it, that's a different story).  Personally I go for walks and sometimes even clean.  Like, I've been cleaning my room this past week and I'm not sure why, but this is the happiest I've felt in a long time.  Just get yourself a hobby as a distraction and one day you'll find that it makes you genuinely happy.

You start pretending to have fun, you might even have a little by accident.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 08:17:04 AM by Turtlekid1 »
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 09:16:59 AM »
Wow, you're getting two completely different perspectives thrown at you consecutively, one from Turtlekid (a Christian) and me (a rookie existentialist). Just keep in mind that both opinions are just that: perspectives.

There have been a lot of times lately when I've done something I know I shouldn't, gotten angry at myself for it, decided to do something about it, not done anything about it, rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Mostly this has to do with school. There have been a couple classes that I've not worked at hard in as I should, and I know it, but I continue to slack off. And my grades show it, I failed English at the end of 12th grade, failed a programming class last semester (and I'm majoring in computer science, go figure), got a D in calculus, and I'm on my way to failing calculus 2 this semester. I kinda hate myself for doing this same thing over and over. I don't really have any excuse for it.

In the "grand scheme" (there is none) failing a few classes isn't going to affect you too terribly. Be strong and move on. It's a sign of strength when you have no regrets; you affirm your life by valuing it for what it is, not what it could be.

I have a hard time showing anything creative that I've done to other people. I think it's out of fear that whoever I show it to won't appreciate it, but whenever I think that I ask myself "Seriously? Is that any reason to keep all this to yourself?" Because of that, there are a bunch of things that I've wanted to do for the longest time but have been too nervous to do. Things like playing music or drawing or writing. Basically anything that I could point to and say "I did that." There's not much I want to do more right now than learn how to play an instrument or how to draw, but I won't let myself because I don't want to have to show other people that I've done anything. I love when I show something to someone and they like it, or even if they don't like it but can tell me how to fix it. I just don't like actually showing things to people. I used to take piano lessons in third grade, and I loved playing the piano, but I absolutely hated recitals. Having someone ask me to play something for them, in the way family members do, was even worse. I'm still that way and I don't know why and that bothers me.

Okay, my main problem with this is that you're behaving yourself in accordance with an external influence's opinion. You're acting in something Jean Paul Sartre calls "bad faith" because you're denying your freedom to choose. Although other people may limit you somehow, they cannot force you to follow one course over another. Instead, why not display it because it gives you pleasure?

Don't give so much friggin' weight to not showing off your art because you're afraid of what they might think. You have a lot of options man, so just go for it. If they don't appreciate it, who gives a flying ****? It's your art. It has no essence, no objective purpose. It's what you want it to be.

I'm a Christian, but I don't like identifying as such. Being Christian isn't the most popular of ideas. I've never been directly ridiculed for it, but I'm always afraid that I will. The most common belief, at least among non-religious people, seems to be that religion is only for "the weak", people who can't decide for themselves what to do with their lives, etc. I hate the idea of being labeled like that. My closest friends, and even some of my family doesn't know that I'm a Christian. Religion is supposed to be one of those things that you're not ashamed of, right? So why the hell can't I get myself to stop being ashamed of it?

I became an atheist because I felt like I was denying reality by being a Christian, not because I was "ridiculed" for it. I will agree that it's a morality worthy of the weak because it a) denies reality and b) teaches them to label wonderful, life affirming things as sinful, but you're letting other people choose for you once again. Drop a concept when it conflicts with reality, not when an external influence tells you to.

Keep in mind that I'm just presenting a perspective. I don't expect you to heed what I've said or make it your own. My words aren't metaphysically significant, insofar as they're not universally binding. In the end, you either choose for yourself or let another person do it for you.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 09:44:18 AM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 09:49:04 AM »
While I don't agree that Christianity denies reality or labels anything as sinful that isn't a sin, I do agree that if you don't really believe that it's true - if don't believe that it's aligned with reality - then you should reevaluate your beliefs.  Which isn't to say I think you should completely abandon your faith in favor of agnosticism or atheism; instead, I would say that you need to do some studying and decide for yourself.

Make sure you know why you believe what you do.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 03:26:35 PM »
I'm a Christian, but I don't like identifying as such. Being Christian isn't the most popular of ideas. I've never been directly ridiculed for it, but I'm always afraid that I will. The most common belief, at least among non-religious people, seems to be that religion is only for "the weak", people who can't decide for themselves what to do with their lives, etc. I hate the idea of being labeled like that. My closest friends, and even some of my family doesn't know that I'm a Christian. Religion is supposed to be one of those things that you're not ashamed of, right? So why the hell can't I get myself to stop being ashamed of it?
I'd say to make sure you believe what you really believe. Believe in a way that makes sense to you, and be able to explain it to make it make sense to others, and you'll have much less reason to be ashamed. I've spent much of the last five years examining what I still believe from my upbringing, what I've revised, and reasons for believing in all of it, and it's helped me be a bit less ashamed. When you think through all the things you believe and basically come up with your own systematic theology, more often than not you'll have stuff in there that catches people off-guard because it doesn't conform to their stereotype of Christianity, and that will make some (though never all) people more likely to pay attention and see that you're an earnest, honest truth-seeker who's not just repeating what they've been told.

I can't deny that the ridiculing will come, though. It will. I mean, we follow a zombie who told us to give away everything we have, make ourselves great by becoming servants, and unconditionally love those who hate us. We're pretty ridiculous.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 07:47:23 PM by CrossEyed7 »
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 04:24:11 PM »
There're places in the world where you'll sooner be ridiculed, if not lynched, for atheism than Christianity, rural California is one of 'em

I became an atheist because I felt like I was denying reality by being a Christian, not because I was "ridiculed" for it.

I did after many many hours in high school thinking on my own about how the universe must work, about how many things we (humans) know that we don't know, about how many things we know now, but explained with deities when when we didn't, cause and effect, chaos theory, laws of science that are never, ever broken, and how much room that leaves open for the supernatural. It's my belief that there is an explanation for how the universe got started and that whether a person chooses one thing or another is actually entirely dependent on how they are wired up to respond to stimuli. I'll admit it's kinda scary to think of what it must be like to die if nothing happens afterward, but that's all the more reason to seize the day, don't you think?

Does this mean life is meaningless? Maybe. Does it mean life can be no fun? Of course not. Does it mean you should live like an antipathetic outlaw whose only concern is self-preservation? No, no... philanthropy should be natural, not enforced by torture threats from a great beard in the sky...

And that's all I have to say about that
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 07:18:20 PM »
The most common belief, at least among non-religious people, seems to be that religion is only for "the weak", people who can't decide for themselves what to do with their lives, etc.
"The weak"? Nah, that's just your insecurity issues acting up. Religion is more for "the dumb" (believing literally impossible stories written over 2000 years ago to be truth), "the terrified" (of death, or of loved ones being dead, or of sex), or "the brainwashed" (being taught absolute bull[dukar] as a child and never considering that it might not be actually true because your parents said it).

No offense.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 07:52:35 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6mGOeKbeTo" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6mGOeKbeTo</a>.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2011, 08:59:29 PM »
I won't comment on your feelings of religion, because my thoughts would not exactly work with anything other than that which I practice.

As far as you creative endeavors, and your uncertainty with your abilities, what's wrong with creating but not showing it until you are comfortable with you skill level? Or, display it in a more passive manner.

I didn't show anyone my painting and comics for years until I was confident that I had gotten past the initial "What the he'll am I doing?" hurdle. And I don't make a big thing out of it. I posted it on Facebook so my family and friends could see it, and deviantArt for people I don't know to see. I'm already proud of what I created, and I don't need to point each new piece out to feel it's an accomplishment. Any comments and criticism is nice, especially if it's something I can learn from, but there's no pressure on either end.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 08:02:57 AM »
"The weak"? Nah, that's just your insecurity issues acting up. Religion is more for "the dumb" (believing literally impossible stories written over 2000 years ago to be truth), "the terrified" (of death, or of loved ones being dead, or of sex), or "the brainwashed" (being taught absolute bull[dukar] as a child and never considering that it might not be actually true because your parents said it).

Although "terrified" and "weak" aren't synonymous, the two are interrelated. People who are terrified of reality are weaker of will than a person who accepts the finality death and doesn't attempt to avoid it with a little metanarrative.

There're places in the world where you'll sooner be ridiculed, if not lynched, for atheism than Christianity, rural California is one of 'em

Yes, in Texas if you're an atheist like myself you're kind of an outcast. I probably wouldn't use that in my defense though. I would just say that atheism can't compel a person to lynch a Christian because it's merely the rejection of a concept. Nothing more, nothing less.

I did after many many hours in high school thinking on my own about how the universe must work, about how many things we (humans) know that we don't know, about how many things we know now, but explained with deities when when we didn't, cause and effect, chaos theory, laws of science that are never, ever broken, and how much room that leaves open for the supernatural.


Well, that's essentially what happened to me, hahaha. 

I'll admit it's kinda scary to think of what it must be like to die if nothing happens afterward, but that's all the more reason to seize the day, don't you think?

Everything gets boring after a while, which is why death is a relief.

Does this mean life is meaningless? Maybe. Does it mean life can be no fun? Of course not. Does it mean you should live like an antipathetic outlaw whose only concern is self-preservation? No, no... philanthropy should be natural, not enforced by torture threats from a great beard in the sky...

Well, I'm of the opinion that there are no metaphysical morals, just consequences to avoid if we are to preserve the species.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 08:14:46 AM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 08:47:57 AM »
Although "terrified" and "weak" aren't synonymous, the two are interrelated. People who are terrified of reality are weaker of will than a person who accepts the finality death and doesn't attempt to avoid it with a little metanarrative.
So a person can't possibly believe in religion because he thinks it's actually true?

And what makes "People who are terrified of reality are weaker of will than a person who accepts the finality death and doesn't attempt to avoid it with a little metanarrative" any more valid a claim than "People who are terrified of consequences are weaker of will than a person who accepts that there is an authority higher than them and doesn't attempt to avoid it with a little arguing"? Both are totally subjective.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2011, 11:48:18 AM »
Someone should just rename Not at the Dinner Table to "Gays and Athiest: What's up with That?"

At least then absolutely no one will be surprised when every discussion leads to it.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2011, 12:18:40 PM »
And what makes "People who are terrified of reality are weaker of will than a person who accepts the finality death and doesn't attempt to avoid it with a little metanarrative" any more valid a claim than "People who are terrified of consequences are weaker of will than a person who accepts that there is an authority higher than them and doesn't attempt to avoid it with a little arguing"? Both are totally subjective.

Not necessarily, the former is supported by empirical evidence (or at least suggests that if God exists he or she cannot be discovered through legitimate natural methods) while the latter is just another strange "explanation" (like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.) for the origin of everything.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2011, 05:29:15 PM »
You weren't talking evidence at all, you were saying "People who disagree with me obviously only think the way they do because they're afraid of the truth."
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

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