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Author Topic: Things about Smash  (Read 2771 times)

« on: June 05, 2013, 10:02:29 PM »
Just some things I want discussed, ad in no particular order here they are:

-spam attacks: I don't like these. Almost every character these days can just hold the a button and it will literally win the game for you. That's not how fighting games ever worked and they never will.

-3000+ achievements: These clog the file size of the game, which in many cases has caused wii's to crash and other bad things.

-Characters: I don't think there should be too many. About the number in Brawl plus maybe 3-5 more would be a nice thing.

-Movesets: Some of them have nothing to do with the character. Kirby's smash is a cook, for gods sake.

-Subspace: This is weird. Honestly platforming doesn't work with the fighting format, because with moving around and such you don't have time to pull of combos. I guess that's why the enemies can be one shotted. Also the storyline is plain stupid.


Discuss.
Now with grandeur.

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2013, 10:31:09 PM »
1. You can't do that in Smash. It only works if the people you're playing against are exceptionally dumb.

2. They don't clog anything. And there aren't 3000 of them. And they certainly haven't caused Wii systems to crash.

4. You're either a troll or you've never touched a Kirby game in your life.

Also, we already have a Smash Bros. thread. Granted, the title asks for what characters you want, but I doubt anybody would mind if you talked about other stuff in there.

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2013, 10:34:06 PM »
-spam attacks: I don't like these. Almost every character these days can just hold the a button and it will literally win the game for you. That's not how fighting games ever worked and they never will.
Sure, if you're playing against people who suck. Anyone with even a little skill will force you to switch to a better strategy almost immediately.

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-3000+ achievements: These clog the file size of the game, which in many cases has caused wii's to crash and other bad things.
Some examples, please? What do you mean by "the file size"? The save size? What's so bloaty about them? You know simple data like that can be easily and effectively compressed, right?

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-Characters: I don't think there should be too many. About the number in Brawl plus maybe 3-5 more would be a nice thing.
How do we define "too many"? Why should yours be the definition that we use? And what's wrong with a lot of characters? If you don't like some of them, don't use them. That's easy enough.

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-Movesets: Some of them have nothing to do with the character. Kirby's smash is a cook, for gods sake.
This has some truth to it. But Kirby is a bad example. Have you ever played a Kirby game? Cooking has plenty to do with him. He can cook in several Kirby games, and his affinity for food is heavily emphasized throughout the series.

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-Subspace: This is weird. Honestly platforming doesn't work with the fighting format, because with moving around and such you don't have time to pull of combos. I guess that's why the enemies can be one shotted. Also the storyline is plain stupid.
You're not meant to do combos in Subspace. It's a beat-em-up. You punch until the enemies die, and they're not terribly strong. Storyline... yeah, it's questionable. But it works well for the setting, and the cutscenes were pretty brilliant.
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2013, 10:49:07 PM »
-spam attacks: I don't like these. Almost every character these days can just hold the a button and it will literally win the game for you. That's not how fighting games ever worked and they never will.

By "Spam Attack", I assume you mean a sequence of rapid attacks in a small area around your character. These do not, by any means, "literally wins the game for you". They all have significant push back. People caught in them get pushed away fairly quickly. As far as "That's not how fighting games ever worked and they never will.", see also:
     
  • E. Honda
  • Blanka
  • Wolverine
  • Jin Kisaragi
  • etc

They have been in the genre as long as the genre has existed.
-3000+ achievements: These clog the file size of the game, which in many cases has caused wii's to crash and other bad things.

Storing additional data based on whether booleans have been triggered takes up trivial space.

-Characters: I don't think there should be too many. About the number in Brawl plus maybe 3-5 more would be a nice thing.
Fighting games with small casts have either small development teams (Skullgirls) or rapid development cycles (Blazblue). Nintendo has no such boundaries. More characters leads to a nice healthy competitive scene and metagame with all the potential matchups. Nintendo has the resources to fully support as many characters as they please.

-Movesets: Some of them have nothing to do with the character. Kirby's smash is a cook, for gods sake.

See also: Chef and Briguy.

-Subspace: This is weird. Honestly platforming doesn't work with the fighting format, because with moving around and such you don't have time to pull of combos. I guess that's why the enemies can be one shotted. Also the storyline is plain stupid.

There are definitely fighting games which lack the mechanics for platforming. In fact, nearly all of them. But Smash Bros has running, double jumps, wall jumps, etc. It is extremely fitting in a platforming environment. It actually has a rare opportunity for Nintendo to have an interesting story mode without secondary mechanics. Blazblue had to rely on a Visual Novel style of gameplay in order to have a meaty story. Nintendo can have two fun games in there. As for the storyline being stupid, that is an irrelevant issue.
Blacker than a moonless night, hotter and more bitter than hell itself... that is coffee.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2013, 11:33:53 PM »
KoopaTrooper quit biting my style, Smash Bros. parody is my schtick
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 07:55:22 AM »
As for the clogging bit, my wii does crash occasionally, and the fan and CPU make little buzzing sounds, which doesn't happen on any other game.
Now with grandeur.

Tavros

  • he was hello
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 07:56:14 AM »
Then get a better Wii. Preferably new.
read jitsu wa watashi wa

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 09:36:08 AM »
Brawl is a dual-layered disc. It takes a little more out of the Wii to read and will almost certainly be the first thing it has trouble reading if/when the laser begins to die. To put things into perspective, it loads everything as fast or faster than Melee if run on the Wii from a USB flash drive instead of a disc--this is something I have to do because my Wii's laser died. Zelda transforms into Sheik the instant that the first animation with her moving her arms is over. Even the loading screen before the opening video just after booting the game is essentially non-existent, appearing only for a split second presumably because it's programmed to appear at least for one frame even if it's not needed.

Achievements wouldn't account for a significant amount of data. They'd be flags, much like done/not done objectives in, say, an RPG, and a series of yeses and nos. The single most taxing thing on games has always been the graphics, and in 3D graphics, texture files take up the most space by a long shot. Guess what game has an excessive number of redundant textures?

In addition to two files per character, one containing their attack data and one containing all animations, character-specific effects and sometimes weapons, every character's every color has two files. Both contain the model, a low-poly copy of the model used as their shadow, and their textures. One is larger and one smaller but the only difference is apparently the file's format. The larger only ever seems to be loaded when playing against computers in Classic, when your own character reaches Master Hand, or if the character swaps their model out for another (Zelda, Red, Samus, Wario, Bowser; Bowser is the only one in the entire game who seems to use the larger file under all circumstances) and I have no idea why they couldn't have just had one each. Mr. Game & Watch is a unique case, possessing only one file for the playable colors, no textures whatsoever, and numbers that define what color each one's body and outline should be.

Almost everything on any menu in the game pops up in at least two places. There's an entirely separate, independent set of the character select screen portraits that's only used for the fight results screen. The stage select and My Music menus have more or less the same sets of textures too.

Subspace Emissary enemies don't have their own files independent from the levels. This means that if you can find a Goomba in a level and you open that level's file, you're going to find its model, textures, animations, attacks and stats in there too. If you really wanted to you could change these and have Goombas look and behave entirely differently from one level to another, simply changing files and never adding any new ones. Plenty of levels also use the same textures, so many of the same textures are present in multiple levels' files.

Trophies also use their own models and textures whether the depicted thing is in the game already or not, but this does make more sense and most of them are frugal about it, being immovable meshes in the poses they are, without bones or alternate face meshes (not that either would make the files significantly larger).

I've been around the block and back with Brawl's guts. They're kinda nasty.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 09:42:26 AM by BP »
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2013, 01:08:12 AM »
My god. What an atrociously inefficient means of dealing with data. You'd think HAL Laboratories would be better at that sort of thing.
Blacker than a moonless night, hotter and more bitter than hell itself... that is coffee.

« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2013, 11:11:04 PM »
Most of their games are about making copies anyway
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2013, 05:18:38 PM »
Now I'm picturing Kirby programming Brawl, and just constantly inhaling data and turning it into a second-player companion guy thing like in Super Star, and he's going "HiiiIIIIIIiiii!" the whole time while all the copies of data are just running around and jumping into pits.

I love this mental image so much.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

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