Print

Author Topic: Games you think are perfect  (Read 11934 times)

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« on: June 27, 2011, 12:53:00 PM »
Perfect as in, there is not a single thing in it that you ever find yourself complaining about. Not even a minor detail you would change, add or subtract.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and for almost every game I really really love, there's still something about it that I hate. The only exception thus far has been Punch-Out!! (the Wii version from 2009, of course, it's not like I haven't treated it as the greatest thing on Earth in the past). There's nothing, nothing that I think is wrong with it.

I've also been mulling Portal over. I feel like I'm forgetting something in it that I don't like but I'm not sure.



Honorable mention: good games that are very close but still have things in them I hate

Banjo-Kazooie. What's the problem? The maze-like structure on the way to Mumbo's skull in Bubblegloop Swamp. I hate that. And unless you enter the level, get the boots, leave, smash the ice chunk blocking the way to Cheato, then do the level, plan perfectly so you finish as a crocodile, and leave, you must go through it twice at least... unless you don't want Cheato's first upgrade. What would I have changed? Instead of a tiny slot for only Croc Banjo to fit through, I would have put a door there opened by a switch in front of Mumbo's house.

Also I wish the entrance to Rusty Bucket Bay wouldn't be permanently flooded. You never actually get to walk up the steps to the open door.

Ocarina of Time. What are the problems? Time is too wonky. You can't be in Kakariko in the day, use the Sun's Song to make it night, then go to the Graveyard and see Dampé because he's already ended his tour? What. And of course there's Kaepora "That God[darn] Owl" Gaebora. And the way you can't necessarily get a quick warp to Zora's Domain, particularly in the future half of the game where you can't swim through the portal at the lake (not that anyone likes swimming across the lake in the past half). And the Iron Boots in the Water Temple. There are actually many things in OoT that make it far from perfect, in spite of how good it is. Perhaps the remake has fixed a few of these problems? I'll find out later on

BioShock. What's wrong with that one? Everything after you meet Andrew Ryan in person. A billion fetch quests and a boss who doesn't really fit the mood of the rest of the game. Especially the ending if you accidentally harvested ONE Little Sister. I was trying to reload! Honest! I don't deserve the bad ending where I become an irretrievably bad guy! The part with the bees and the splicers showing up every time you opened a hive was pretty ridiculous, too. And I don't like how you can't customize the controls (at least in the 360 version).

EarthBound 2/MOTHER 3... There's an explanation behind why they decided to make it so you can't run for a little while before Lucas or Kumatora learns a new PSI move but it's still annoying and I automatically use the workaround that makes it almost like it doesn't happen--walk around in circles until I get the move. There's also a problem most people miss that's really glaring when you notice it. Hinawa (Lucas's mother) barely has any character at all, but you're very much expected to be devastated when she dies. What went wrong here? They kill Hinawa entirely too early for it to be very striking. More interaction with Flint was really, really needed, especially since he is your player character when it happens. Claus on the other hand has a lot of screen time before being reconstructed, so his death hits a lot harder. Maybe they should've called it BROTHER instead.

A lot of people would probably say they hate Chapter 3 most because Salsa is so weak, but I disagree. Having your player character NEED to rely on a non-playable character that you hate is a pretty effective writing technique that wouldn't work in a movie. It's frustrating, but that's exactly what that part needs. You are Salsa, and you are frustrated. No problem here.

WarioWare: Smooth Moves. It's great fun, but what is WITH that one Tug-Of-War game with the vacuum!? Did they not test that one at all? There are a few microgames in there that you can never be sure you'll win by skill because the control isn't perfect, and that's baaaaad.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 12:55:02 PM by BP »
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 01:18:22 PM »
Excellent thread idea, BP. Bravo.

I think Guitar Hero 2 and 3 are perfect. I can't think of a single thing I would change about them.

I instantly thought of Bioshock, but after some thinking I realized I got really sick of the hacking minigame. The things you mentioned about Bioshock didn't bother me. The part where after you meet Andrew Ryan was a little tedious but I'm not counting that as a knock against the game. I wasn't bothered because my pants were still full of poop from meeting Andrew Ryan.. If they had eliminated the hacking minigame (not even necessarily right away, they could have given you a tonic to bypass it entirely) then I think Bioshock would be perfect.

I think Portal is perfect.

I thought Team Fortress 2 was perfect until they started doing the class updates. I'm not saying I didn't like the class updates; just, the game had too many variables to consider it perfect.

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance for GBA is very close to perfect, if only they would lighten up on the laws toward the end of the game. I can handle one (or even two) laws during a battle, but three is ridiculous, and they always seem to prohibit my most-used things (black magic, katanas, etc). It got to the point where I would wander around the overworld for dozens of in-game days until the laws would land on the one little section that I was OK with. This is why I was so excited when FFTA2 came out for the DS, I heard they pretty much did away with the law system. But when I actually played it, I found myself missing the structure and discipline of the laws. So, if they kept the laws to 2 in FFTA, it would be a perfect game.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 02:05:48 PM »
the hacking minigame.

AWW YEAH how did I forget that, I was planning to talk about that and everything, it's the worst thing about the game. Granted, you don't have to do it to survive if you would rather just kill cameras, pay full price for stuff, and never have support bots, but I'm such a pennypinching fool who wants to waste as little as possible in games that I always do it. It would've been okay if there were different mini games for each kind of machine.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2011, 02:18:39 PM »
Sly 2: Band of Thieves is the one that comes readily to mind.  I love everything about that game.  The gameplay is fun, the visuals are good, even by today's standards, the characters and story are amazingly well-handled, the soundtrack is catchy, the difficulty is perfectly-balanced, and it's long enough to satisfy me without becoming tedious.

Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando did pretty much everything right - blended platforming, shooting, and RPG elements in just the right way.  Included lots of unlockable stuff, like a New Game Plus feature and a neato museum filled with dummied-out content and little gadgets to mess with.

As far as honorable mentions:

-Crash Bandicoot 2 was nearly perfect, but a couple of the endgame levels threw some very convoluted stuff at you.  You had to backtrack and abuse game mechanics and just generally do some weird stuff for a couple of the gems.  Still, great game.
-Tomba! was truly excellent, but there is precisely one nigh-impossible-to-win minigame that keeps it from fitting this thread's classification of "perfect."  Although from the required quests, I would say it actually does fit.  Just that one side quest...
-Metroid: Zero Mission was the perfect Metroid experience... until the "Metroid Gear Solid" segment that came completely out of nowhere and the subsequent padding you had to trudge through for 100% (seriously, you could've removed Power Bombs entirely and changed nothing significantly).
-Uncharted 2 could've been perfect in my book, as well, if not for the endgame getting very tedious.  I'm not sure how else to describe this one, but the last couple of chapters lost the fast pace that had characterized most of the game before that.  The gunfights turned from frantic action to puzzles, because there was really only one way to get through each of them, usually involving some iffy stealth sections.
-Jak 2 was awesome except for the vehicle missions, which handled pretty badly and gave you even less margin for error than the rest of the game, which is saying something.

That's what I can think of right now.  Might return later if I think of other stuff.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2011, 02:57:34 PM »
TK, you forgot Metroid: Other M.

As far as RPGs go, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is pretty much faultless.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2011, 03:00:19 PM »
Oh, yeah, TTYD.  Forgot that one.  Yeah, that would go on my list.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2011, 08:07:21 PM »
X-Men Legends II - great level design, good secrets, multiple viable builds for each character, and solid mechanics. I can still go back and play it with no issues.

Chu-Chu Rocket - great puzzles in single player, computer AI is good, multiplayer is great. Plus it's easy to learn and a great way to hate the person sitting next to you.

Honorable mentions:
Monday Night Combat: grenADE iii arena isn't the grestest level design, lack of updates and balancing, but overall very solid gameplay.

Marvel Ultimate Alliance: lack of control over stats, repetitive quick time boss battle parts. Difficulty not high enough at Medium, have to unlock Hard.

(this ones gonna sound odd) Mirror's Edge: very linear in some places, rather short. Otherwise I loved it, and thought it was very solid.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2011, 08:46:55 PM »
I don't know if there are any games I'd consider to be perfect, but there are some that come darn close.

Kirby and the Amazing Mirror: I remember having a few minor gripes about it while I was playing it, particularly one boss battle that involved hard-to-dodge attacks and electrified walls, but as a whole it's really really good.

Super Metroid
: I always manage to get lost in Norfair, and the grapple beam is tricky to get the hang of. After having played Zero Mission, I've found myself wishing that Samus could grab ledges, but that doesn't really take away from how awesome the game is.

Half-Life 2: "Let me get out of your way, Dr. Freeman." (If you haven't played HL2: the AI squadmates have a strange, obsessive habit of always standing right where you want to go. Always.)

Sonic 3 & Knuckles
: I think my only complaint about this one is that I still can't beat the last boss. And I also can't get the Chaos Emeralds, but that's just because I really suck at special stages.

CoconutMikeNIke: I have to agree with you on Mirror's Edge. Although I tend to feel a little ripped off (I foolishly bought it shortly after it came out, only to see its price drop by 75% at a later time), I really did like it. No matter how many times I accidentally fell off of a building or got shot a million times or ran headlong into a guard with his pistol ready for whipping, I still found it fun.
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2011, 08:57:17 PM »
I keep wanting to post here but realizing that I'd feel deeply uncomfortable calling any game perfect, except maybe Chess and Go.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2011, 11:29:12 PM »
Ah, a compelling thread! Let me see... well, yeah, it's fairly difficult for me to consider any game--or any thing--"perfect", but I'll give you some top contenders:

"Perfect"
Shadow of the Colossus: Great aesthetic, combined with an arguably unparalleled synthesis of gameplay and symbolism-laden storytelling. I mean, if you've played this, there's not much else I've got to say.

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask: Proof that you can make an awesome (Zelda) game in about a year. Has all the elements of a great modern adventure game, with an emphasis on people like I've never seen.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess: Haters gonna hate--this is still the most bang for my buck I think I've ever gotten in years of gaming. Did it do anything groundbreaking? No, but it didn't need to.

God of War III: Well, it's epic, the graphics are great, there's plenty of variety, it ties the trilogy together pretty well... nothing to complain about here!

Near-"Perfect"

Metroid Prime: Everything, from the atmosphere to the interface, to the very fact that this game managed to be as great as it was in the first place, is top-notch. It's just... well, that Omega Pirate really had me snarled for a while. But I was young... dunno, maybe I should bump this up to "Perfect".

Uncharted 2: As far as "cinematic" games go, I've never seen its equal. Would I want all the games I play to be like this? Of course not, because it's also derivative as sin and mildly repetitive... but what a show!

Ico: I'd put it right up there with SotC, but Yorda is not always the easiest to deal with. I suppose that's partly intentional, though--and everything else about the game is so stunning.

Braid: The art, music, and gameplay are wonderful... now, if it wasn't deliberately confusing, it could be slightly better.


I'm sure there are entries for both of these lists that I'm forgetting at the moment, and so I apologize. Part of it is because I'm realizing that there is a difference between "favorite" and "perfect" games--for example, Chibi-Robo and Mario & Luigi are two of my favorite games, but describing them as "perfect" seems... off.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2011, 12:08:29 AM »
Donkey Kong Country could use some slightly tighter controls.

Theoretically, Super Metroid redesigned fully to work with the GBA Metroid controls would probably be close (Control Freak isn't quite there, though it's good enough for me).

Metroid Prime has a few flaws -- the biggest one I can think of now is the Chozo Ghosts respawning every time you enter one of their rooms. The whole point of fighting them is supposed to be that you loose the bonds tying them to the planet or whatever, and you never get to actually do that because they always come back. However, it's much less annoying gameplay-wise than the Pirate Commandos in Echoes, because they don't lock the doors.

I know Luigi's Mansion has some flaws, but I can't think of them now. It's pretty close to perfect, for what it is.

Wind Waker feels basically perfect to me. It was kind of my first Zelda, but I don't think I'm too biased on this -- I actually played OoT first, thought it was the best game ever, and then changed my mind in retrospect. Whenever I look back at Wind Waker, it's still just as good.

Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles are close. I would change the way that you come back from special stages with 0 rings in 2 and that one part of Carnival Night Zone in 3K for starters. Actually, I might just cut out CNZ entirely; it drags on quite a bit.

Mario 3 with two players might be perfect. It'd be nice to have Yoshi, though.

Tetris is at least worthy of being put alongside checkers, if not chess.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2011, 12:24:55 AM »
I might have been compelled to nominate Wind Waker if the water:land ratio were switched.

And of course, SM64 deserves mention of some sort. Most of its misgivings are understandable given its place as the first game of its kind.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2011, 03:52:55 AM »
Thanks to Brian's list I realized perhaps the only videogame I would ever call perfect: Braid. It is perfect.

Everything else you guys are listing just makes me laugh.

« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 04:40:07 AM »
You guys remound me of some stuff.

Mirror's Edge - I would call this game very close to perfect. I think the only thing wrong with it is lack of replay value, once I beat it I didn't feel the need to go back. Everything else is great.

Shadow of the Colossus - I thought that game was very repetitive, and there's no way a game like that can be called perfect when you've got all that tedious horse riding to do between all the colossi. Far from perfect.

Batman: Arkham Asylum is not a perfect game, but its combat system is the most perfect I have seen in any game of its kind.

Of course, nothing in this world is truly perfect, so really none of these games are perfect. I guess I'm using the term to mean "games I am perfectly content with", which is also sort of what BP outlined in his OP. Having said that, Braid is the one game I've played that is as close to true perfection as any video game can possibly get. Thanks to ShadowBrian for reminding me.

Kimimaru

  • Max Stats
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2011, 09:50:18 AM »
And the way you can't necessarily get a quick warp to Zora's Domain, particularly in the future half of the game where you can't swim through the portal at the lake (not that anyone likes swimming across the lake in the past half).

You can get to Zora's Domain in the very beginning of the game with just a sword :).

Putting that aside, if you want a quick way to Zora's Domain warp to the Graveyard and backwalk/sidehop there.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2011, 10:15:24 AM »
I suppose I really should try OoT again for the... fourth time? and try to at least get past the second dungeon before not being compelled compels me to quit.

:\
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2011, 11:12:55 AM »
Wait, get rid of Carnival Night Zone? It has one of the best level designs I've seen, and is certainly the best of that era. Everything ties together perfectly, the music, the setpieces, the villains, plus the branching paths that crisscross the whole time, which can seem confusing but there's almost no way to actually get lost, secrets and rooms that feel cohesive. Like, there are rules for where they can go, but the guy putting the level together knew you knew the rules, shaking it up a bit. I kept it off my list because Sonic 3 was so short, and something like that were done today, release a short game then the end a year later, both for full price, people would freak right out.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2011, 12:13:36 PM »
It has one of the best level designs I've seen
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2011, 12:22:09 PM »
I should probably go back and play CNZ again. I haven't played it in a while, and I'm sure my memories are a bit distorted. But something definitely should be done about the oscillating drum. Maybe have a Super Metroid ostrich run in and show you.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2011, 01:06:04 PM »
You can get to Zora's Domain in the very beginning of the game with just a sword :).

I was saying it was a pain/took longer than a minute no matter what you did to get there. You could warp to the Forest Temple, get out of the Sacred Meadow and go through the portal in the woods, you could warp to Kakariko graveyard, leave it and go through the hike up the river (or as old Link, ride a plant), you could warp to Lake Hylia, swim across it and go through the hole (young only)... actually, you COULD use Farore's Wind in Jabu-Jabu's belly or the Ice Cavern, would make the real quickest ways to get there.

Also nope, you need Zelda's Lullaby to get in. Unless glitches.

All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2011, 01:59:01 PM »
I should probably go back and play CNZ again. I haven't played it in a while, and I'm sure my memories are a bit distorted. But something definitely should be done about the oscillating drum. Maybe have a Super Metroid ostrich run in and show you.

Hah, that would be great.  Yea, that part is a bit of a pain, but right in the beginning of Act 1 is a very similar drum, connecting Sonic/Tails start point and Knuckles, and while you can get down there, it does introduce the mechanic.  It is a bit of a missed opportunity to just have so few, one which is completely devoid of use outside showing how they move.  Add a couple around that can be used to throw you in the air, and a few like the main path one where you have to bring it down and jump off for ring rooms or Special Stages or something.  I mean, they had the corkscrew things that drop you left or right depending on your rings twice, and those offer so little on the "good" side to seem like just a time waste; make my achievements feel like an actual accomplishment.  At least then, after you run into the drum that you have to ride, you can think back and be like "OHHHH, that's what I was supposed to do".
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2011, 03:04:09 PM »
It's strange. My favorite game is Team Fortress 2 but there's a lot I'd change about it.

On the other hand, my second favorite game, Metal Gear Solid 2, is completely flawless in my opinion. I wouldn't even change Raiden.

Other games I think are perfect include:

1. Banjo-Tooie
2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3. Super Mario Galaxy
4. Metal Gear Solid 3
5. God of War III
6. Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
7. Wario Ware, Inc.: Mega Microgames!
8. Pokemon: HeartGold
9. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 03:11:07 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2011, 03:55:28 PM »
Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario 64 are pretty flawless, IMO (I wish I could say the same about SMA4, thanks failed e-Reader).  And remake as it might be, SMBDX lacks anything that I can see to criticize (besides the lack of graphical updates and the later Lost Levels, but both are forgivable due to its being a GBC game).

Superstar Saga's pretty close, but the overall lack of balance in the stats is a significant flaw, to say nothing of downright broken equipment like the Mush Badges.  Paper Mario, as well, comes close, but I feel it lacks a definitive challenge factor; that and the incredibly rigid 50-50-30 stat structure makes interesting strategies like HP-only all but impossible to pull off.  TTYD, on the other hand, nailed both of those, and the incredibly flexible badge/battle systems work seamlessly together.  Just about the only thing I'd change about it is the frequency with which enemies produce badges by any means; it's a great idea, but the one-in-several-hundred chance of getting most badges sort of kills the incentive to try to obtain them.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 09:09:41 AM by jdaster64 »
If she is indeed genetically mutated such that she has an eye in the back of her head, then I guess that she is genetically mutated and has an eye in the back of her head.

Kimimaru

  • Max Stats
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2011, 05:32:43 PM »
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2011, 10:27:50 PM »
Every time someone lists GoWIII instead of GoW or GoWII I cry a little.

« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2011, 11:03:10 PM »
Every time someone lists GoWIII instead of GoW or GoWII I cry a little.

I like the 3rd one better. Get over it, crybaby.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2011, 11:07:22 PM »
God of war was great Greek tragedy, a story of revenge, and one of great growth. The third is a dude killing things in HD
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2011, 11:30:00 PM »
Really? Are you guys really picking my list to criticize?

My opinion isn't even worth it and I wrote like two sentences.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2011, 11:45:50 PM »
ShadowBrian also wrote about GoWIII.

(wait, who's the crybaby?)

« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2011, 11:49:31 PM »
Didn't even see it. Sorry.

And I called him a crybaby because he was "crying." But seriously, what's the point in criticizing a list in this thread?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 11:59:08 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2011, 12:20:43 AM »
My only problem with it is that its length takes away from its credibility. It's tough to believe you gave that much thought to that many games and didn't come up with a single flaw in any of them at all.

Of course, if you did, that's fine, whatever, I'm not gonna argue with it. I personally can come up with ten or twenty things I think are wrong with HeartGold but if you think it's perfect even with facts like how you have to leave the multiplayer battle room everytime you want to change up your party, you can't get additional Berry Pots, HM moves occupy slots in a moveset, the encounter rate in caves is retardedly high, there's a ten-letter limit on nicknames, Flareon's movepool is crappy, Blissey is grossly overpowered, you can't delete phone numbers of NPCs who only exist to bother you, Battle Points are a little too hard to get, it has unseeable stats, meeting Giovanni is event-exclusive, the GB sounds' songs aren't accurate to the original G/S/C soundtrack, and doing the prize drawing in Goldenrod City to get TMs is annoying, it's fine.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2011, 12:33:43 AM »
My only problem with it is that its length takes away from its credibility. It's tough to believe you gave that much thought to that many games and didn't come up with a single flaw in any of them at all.

...but it's my opinion. And I really do think those games are flawless for their genre. Sorry.

Honest to god, it's not worth over analyzing my lazy ass lists.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 12:37:56 AM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2011, 12:40:34 AM »
And it's fine. I mean, as long as you think it is perfect FOR all of those things, not IN SPITE of them, which would defy the definition of the word
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2011, 12:45:58 AM »
My criteria for perfection is pretty simple. Maybe a little too simple, but hey, I can't change it. If I had a balling ass time with the game, it's perfect. That's all there is to it.

Perfect as in, there is not a single thing in it that you ever find yourself complaining about.

And that's pretty much every game I listed, honest to god. To me, it's just kind of a dick move to say "BUT THAT GAME SUCKED!" when a) it's not about games that you don't like and b) that's probably not going to change a person's opinion of the game.

An opinion pertaining to perfection pretty much seals the deal, man. Not to mention it could be for any stupid reason. If you want me to type out why I found those games perfect, every reason is going to amount to me having an absolute blast playing them. That's all I can say...yeah I'm a lazy bunghole when it comes to critical thought about video games. I suppose that's why I like NatDT more.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 01:16:51 AM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2011, 01:16:07 AM »
It's okay if you think they're perfect. Just wanted to be sure you were being real with 'em--it's not about thinking which games have the most positive things, but which ones have 100% positive things and zero negative things. In your review of it, the word "but" would be nowhere to be found. The tiniest flaw would kick a game out of a list in this thread. The most minor thing. It's not supposed to be easy to use such a strong word to describe a work--that's why your list looked off to me.

Incidentally, being perfect wouldn't automatically have to make it your favorite game ever. It's entirely possible, understandable, and probably even likely that you could love another game more but have a problem with something in it.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2011, 01:23:32 AM »
Again, that probably has to do with me being lazy about making lists and not putting a ton of critical thought into how I enjoy vidya games.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2011, 01:39:05 AM »
Here's the deal, PL and everyone else.

This thread would be ultro boring if it was just people listing their favorite games. Instead, people are challenging each other's opinions of what makes a particular game well-crafted, which prompts good game discussion. That is orders of magnitude more interesting to read and take part in, rather than "I LIEK THIS GAM".

I encourage you all to keep challenging each other's lists. Those of you who brought up the game in the first place: don't take it personally, or else you run the risk of sounding immature and killing a good discussion.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 02:50:40 AM by bobman37 »

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2011, 02:01:35 AM »
I've been thinking about Paper Mario 2 ever since it was brought up. I just got my complaint: Twilight Trail. Back and forth and back and forth... graaagh. It wouldn't be so bad if the area surrounding Twilight Town were larger and you were sent out in multiple different directions each time, but imagine if, say, Hooktail Castle was beyond Shhwonk Fortress but you still had to go back to the start of Petal Meadows with the Sun and Moon Stones to open it.

Also, it's always a blast to not have to do an information fetch quest because of prior knowledge from having played the game before--sending you back to Creepy Steeple to get the P feels like the game is yanking your leash. Good way to punish a GameFAQs reader, annoying for everyone who plays games right.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2011, 02:16:44 AM »
I've been thinking about Paper Mario 2 ever since it was brought up. I just got my complaint: Twilight Trail. Back and forth and back and forth... graaagh.

Eh I saw it as a good opportunity to get more experience. There were some unusually strong Goombas on that trail.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2011, 10:56:14 AM »
Also, Peggle is perfect. All the parts fit together: color scheme, characters, music, all working towards a singular theme of open, accessable, and inviting gameplay. The difficulty curve is progressive and reasonable, all the powers are viable, and plenty of replayability. Polished to a magnificient sheen.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2011, 12:17:00 PM »
I think Peggle depends too much on luck. Which is totally fine, it's a great game, but a perfect game should be a little more involved. Plus a lot of the superpowers are worthless. But I also really like that game

« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2011, 12:59:17 PM »
It's only luck if you aren't great at geometry or timing.  Which powers do you think are useless?  There are some that are very situational, but not completely useless.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2011, 03:59:16 PM »
Off the top of my head, the zen owl one is kind of a waste because I already know which angles to hit to get the ball where I need it. Also the rabbit magician is more annoying than useful, because you can't bank on a certain bonus from hitting the green peg, just a crapshoot extra ball or more points or something. The flippers are good for some levels but not for others, but I suppose you could just switch to a different power.

I retract my statement to only a few of the powers being useless, after some thinking most of the others are alright. Also I think some of the levels are poorly designed, and it's kind of annoying when you get the ball stuck in a valley and have to wait for the peg to disappear for the ball to continue.

A

« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2011, 10:38:44 PM »
My only problem with it is that its length takes away from its credibility.
That's what she said.
"I was going to post and say "I have one of those!" because I recognized the hair immediately, but then the rest of the pic loaded and I nearly spit my drink out."
1-800-COLLECT: SAVE A BUCK OR TWO!!

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2011, 01:58:57 AM »
You know, I don't think there's anything I'd change about Thousand-Year Door. Maybe punch up the Excess Express chapter a little.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2011, 03:08:21 AM »
Actually, I think I'd do the same. I'd have the train be longer or at the very least introduce more missions to accomplish. It didn't seem like you were obligated to do much there.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2011, 11:19:52 AM »
I'd also label the blue shortcut pipes in the sewers.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2011, 01:50:24 PM »
And add one to Glitzville.  And I maintain that item/badge drops could be at least slightly more frequent without breaking the game.
If she is indeed genetically mutated such that she has an eye in the back of her head, then I guess that she is genetically mutated and has an eye in the back of her head.

TEM

  • THE SOVIET'S MOST DANGEROUS PUZZLE.
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2011, 02:23:22 PM »
Nothing beyond simple geometric shapes and math could be called perfect. The idea that entertainment/artistic artifacts could be perfect with the level of subjectivity involved is a bit silly.
0000

« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2011, 03:39:01 PM »
I'd also label the blue shortcut pipes in the sewers.

I would also make some of the bosses harder. I found the Magnus Von Grapple 2.0 battle to be far too simple because his most powerful attack is easy to avoid if you're using a level 2 Vivian.

The glorious thing about TTYD though is that you could always elect not to use the more powerful partners. Try playing the game from Chapter 1 onward using only Koops in battle and bam, you've got yourself an exponentially tougher hill to climb.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2011, 10:46:33 PM »
Guys, I don't think you understand what perfect means. This list of things you would change, while small things, is growing rather large for Perfect
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2011, 02:01:29 AM »
This list of things you would change, while small things, is growing rather large for Perfect

I was extremely confused by that sentence at first, but I guess you mean to say we're making too many changes to what we conceive to be perfect games?

In Paper Mario's case, it's not really something of a design flaw. I could voluntarily make the game more difficult to my liking. That's a testament to its "perfection" in my opinion.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 02:03:05 AM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2011, 12:36:27 PM »
Yeah, that's what I meant. Me not so gooder with the words-coming-out thingy.

I'm not personally a fan of games where I have to work to make it a challange. At least in the main game. Like, speed runs and stuff are their own thing, and that's fine. But if the enemies are just not strong or smart enough that you have to gimp yourself, that does come off as a flaw, no matter how much I enjoy the game. 
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2011, 11:46:38 PM »
I don't really count anything against PM2 in that regard because it USED to be harder. I feel more like I have mastered it. I'd feel cheated if it somehow kept up with me no matter how well I did. I can't imagine what a game would be like if, say, being good at it was punished with a blue explosion that instantly set you back a few marks?
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2011, 01:10:00 AM »
I found the game a lot easier when I started leveling up BP pretty much every level. Right now, on my second or third playthrough, I'm around level 30 with only 35 HP and 15 FP, and boss fights are usually over in about five turns.

TTYD pretty much has just the right amount of strategering for my tastes.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2011, 03:31:15 AM »
I don't really count anything against PM2 in that regard because it USED to be harder.

Yeah, I guess you're right. It was actually pretty difficult when I was a kid, and it didn't help that I a) didn't level up my badge points and b) didn't look for badges.

Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2011, 08:34:37 PM »
Donkey Kong Country 2, Donkey Kong Country Returns, WWF Smackdown: Shut Your Mouth, and Super Smash Bros Melee

« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2011, 11:25:25 PM »
Hmmm... I disagree with DKC2. I bought that game from the Virtual Console, and it is far from perfect to me. Much of what I have played is confusing and frustrating in a bad way.

But Donkey Kong Country Returns I agree is near perfect. The level design is superb, everything is much clearer, and it manages to achieve being difficult in a good way.
Gently push a piece of the tube containing the intersection along the fourth dimension, out of the original three dimensional space.
- WIkipedia page on the Klein bottle

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2011, 12:34:46 AM »
DKCR needs Classic Controller support and a roll button.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2011, 09:14:09 AM »
There are a lot of games that I love very, VERY much, but I can't think of one that I'd call perfect.  Maybe the original arcade Donkey Kong?  The original Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man maybe?  The more complex a game is, the more likely there'll be little, minor things that kind of put me off.  But the trade-off is that the more complex a game is, the more likely it can provide a deep, immersive experience.  Those minor issues are nitpicks to be sure, but they still keep the game from "perfection."
Haters gonna hate

« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2011, 11:53:40 AM »
TMNT: Turtles in Time is pretty much flawless. Enemies are cheap sometimes but that's all the bad I can say about it.

Print