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Author Topic: Time doesn't exist  (Read 53257 times)

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #150 on: May 01, 2010, 03:20:20 PM »
Because our rules are better. Stoning gays, killing 2,000,000+, ordering women to worship men...yeah, God sounds like a swell guy.
The law of Moses was incredibly progressive for its time. God was working within the context of ancient Mesopotamia. For example, the law demanding that any man who sleeps with an unmarried woman (which was often rape) must marry her may seem unfair, demeaning, and even barbaric to modern society, but in a society where the only way a woman could get by was through her husband, and no man wanted to marry a non-virgin, it was the most merciful thing that could be done for her until society as a whole changed drastically. Blindly comparing Leviticus to modern times without looking at it in a historical and cultural context, whether it's a Christian trying to apply every law to today or a skeptic trying to show how evil God is, is irresponsible. The former assumes that ancient Mesopotamian culture is a perfect ideal which must be applied to everyone; the latter assumes the same about modern Western culture. Both are transcended by "love God, love your neighbor."

However, the more fundamental issue at hand, and the one that everyone except Turtlekid and Weegee has been pretending doesn't exist for like three pages now, is this: By whose standards are your rules better? WHY are they better? Most basically, what does "better" even mean? Is there some universal ought-ness to it (if so, where does your authority come from?), or is it just personal preference (if so, why are we arguing about it like it matters?)?

Side note: If you believe that God doesn't exist and the Bible was written by humans, then you obviously believe that humans can screw up really bad when making moral laws (although "screwing up" implies that there's some higher standard, whose origin you don't seem to be able to account for, against which moral laws are compared). How can you ensure your rules are better, when you're just as human as they were?
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #151 on: May 01, 2010, 04:32:12 PM »
I'm gonna agree with Weegee here.  God pretty much told them beforehand not to **** Him off.  And they did anyway.  He warned them there would be consequences, and there were. 

So why kill them as a form of punishment? If I had an unruly daughter, I wouldn't kill her, I'd put her in time out or show her the right way.

I'm pretty sure Satan, by means of torturing people for all eternity in the depths of Hell, has done more gruesome things than kill people who were deliberately disobeying and knew it.

Why doesn't God just get rid of Satan? He's an accomplice to evil.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 04:34:13 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #152 on: May 01, 2010, 04:40:35 PM »
By whose standards are your rules better? WHY are they better? Most basically, what does "better" even mean? Is there some universal ought-ness to it (if so, where does your authority come from?), or is it just personal preference (if so, why are we arguing about it like it matters?)?

By whose standards are God's rules better? Why are they better? Where does God's authority come from?

How can you ensure your rules are better, when you're just as human as they were?

Scientific progress basically.

EDIT: I wasn't paying attention and accidentally posted twice. My bad.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #153 on: May 01, 2010, 04:56:37 PM »
By whose standards are God's rules better? Why are they better? Where does God's authority come from?
For one thing, He created everything; He's going to have the final word on what's right and what's wrong within His creation.  For another, He knows everything, including what's good and what's evil.

Scientific progress basically.
Science has nothing to do with morality.  Science is for hypothesizing about and experimenting with the physical world of God's creation in order to learn more about it.  Morality is in no way physical.  Also, intelligence and scientific progress are two different things.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #154 on: May 01, 2010, 05:06:13 PM »
The fact that we have progressed scientifically makes our morals better than past morals.

For one thing, He created everything; He's going to have the final word on what's right and what's wrong within His creation.  For another, He knows everything, including what's good and what's evil.

What evidence do you have to suggest that a god "created" everything? Also, you're suggesting that goodness is independent of god in that second sentence.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 05:10:24 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #155 on: May 02, 2010, 09:59:36 AM »
Also, you're suggesting that goodness is independent of god in that second sentence.
You're right, that was sloppily worded.  My point was that no human should presume to know better than an omniscient God about something.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #156 on: May 02, 2010, 10:23:30 AM »
How the crap did we go from discussing how time works to arguing about God?!

« Reply #157 on: May 02, 2010, 02:48:11 PM »
The fact that we have progressed scientifically makes our morals better than past morals.

ಠ_ಠ
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #158 on: May 02, 2010, 03:03:10 PM »
According to the Bible, the cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird.

According to science, the cure for leprosy involves antibiotics that kill the bacteria responsible for the disease.

Guess which one's the ethical procedure?
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #159 on: May 02, 2010, 03:21:13 PM »
According to the Bible, the cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird.
Lol, misinterpretation of Scripture.

Couple of problems with that statement.   First of all, there were no incantations; the priest simply declared the man ceremonially clean, which brings me to my next point: this wasn't regarded as a cure for leprosy.  Instead, it was a sacrificial ceremony that was meant to declare a person cleansed after he no longer had the disease ("leprosy" could actually refer to any infectious disease of the skin the way it's used in that context).
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #160 on: May 02, 2010, 04:00:00 PM »
What the hell happened that turned PL 180 degrees into a super-militant atheist?
every

« Reply #161 on: May 02, 2010, 04:20:47 PM »


EDIT: College happened, Glorb.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 04:23:32 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #162 on: May 02, 2010, 04:47:27 PM »


Fixed.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #163 on: May 02, 2010, 05:14:29 PM »
The appeal to authority is a fallacy of defective induction and does NOTHING to help your argument. My cartoon was meant to be humorous.

Atheist using the appeal to authority: "Stalin also rejected Darwin's theory and suppressed research regarding evolution. Let's not forget that Hitler was a Roman Catholic, Idi Amin Dada was Islamic, etc."

Christian using the appeal to authority: "Stalin was an atheist, Pol Pot was an atheist, etc."
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 05:22:55 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #164 on: May 02, 2010, 05:25:57 PM »
I'm not trying to "appeal to authority," merely point out that the definition of "militant" in the original cartoon is incorrect.  The atheist pictured may be vehement, or even extreme, but "militant" implies violence.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

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