Do you believe in God?

42 (71.2%)
9 (15.3%)
8 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59


Author Topic: A Survey This Is  (Read 99067 times)


  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #315 on: March 20, 2006, 11:44:04 PM »
I've never rolled on a laughing floor before.

All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #316 on: March 21, 2006, 07:57:42 AM »
You should try it!
That was a joke.

« Reply #317 on: March 21, 2006, 09:54:09 AM »
Hey! YR, you're back!
*Shakes his hands*
You missed so much!

Huh?  What did I miss so much?  A target or something? D ======= I---> (-(-O-)-) XD Thanks, I missed you all too.  Did other people actually miss me too?  Hey, is someone looking at me with binoculars? *gets out his own binoculars and sees PaperLuigi* Oh wait... now he's dropping them and running away.

Insane Steve: Your thoughts about the clock making were pretty interesting and I could see how that could work.  But in evolution, there's no blind people who are making things happen and improving on their mistakes, just blind events that are randomnly making things happen and have no understanding of whether or not their effects are better or worse than the last occurences.  Unless you could say that mother nature made things turn out good but that's kind of like God I think.  Did I overlook anything there?  I'm not trying to insult what you said, just asking something. 

Koopaslaya: What big band?  Did God create the universe with music too?! (that would be interesting) "Oh when the saints go mar-ching in!!" But seriously... which story says that man came first?  That would be strange because man would live in a world that couldn't support his own life, unless something could keep him alive until the world appeared and then he could go there.

A can of worms?  Has the topic gotten that bad?  I hope not because of me.  I'm trying to be honest yet fair to both sides.  If I'm coming on to strong I'll try to tone it down.  EYEEEEEEeeeeeeeerrwooooor. (volume going down)

Suffix: interesting thought there.

ROLF? Rawful Lawl!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 10:12:09 AM by Yoshisaurus Rex »
(E I): o{D___(--I I): o(D___(o 8(= P)___(=(:  )@)___(3 I)}:O})+)___<( )=(: )) )
The cake is a lie, your base belongs to us, keyboard cat will play you off as you fall out of the bus.

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #318 on: March 21, 2006, 12:01:21 PM »
In my metaphor, the clockmaker is God or whatever higher power you believe created the universe and all its creatures. The blind tinkerers are intended to be forces of nature, chemical reactions, random mutations of simple objects in their replication, anything that can contribute to a complex organism (the clock) eventually being formed by chance. Unfortunately, to my knowledge no acts of chance has produced a laughing floor that can be rolled on.

No need to apologise for presenting a different viewpoint -- that IS what this thread is for, after all.

« Reply #319 on: March 21, 2006, 12:13:06 PM »
OK, I guess it doesn't really matter what we believe in, as long as you have things to back it up. 
I guess there is evidence for everything.  Finding Jesus's DNA on something (I can't remember off the top of my head), or having all of the floating gases, or wtvr else, I guess it's fine.


  • Kansas
« Reply #320 on: March 21, 2006, 03:35:32 PM »
Yeah, you know, like Big Bad Voodoo Daddy? Swing, babby swing!!
Εὐθύνατε τὴν ὁδὸν Κυρίου

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #321 on: March 21, 2006, 09:22:14 PM »
Yeah, see, people never know about the other creation story in the Bible. At any rate, thinking logically, neither one of them could have happened exactly in the manner described.
That was a joke.


  • Inquiring
« Reply #322 on: March 21, 2006, 11:39:44 PM »
The thing about the Creation vs. Evolution theories is that neither one of them can actually ever be proven. The only way to scientifically prove something is to test it and for it to happen over and over again under the exact same conditions. Both will forever remain theories, because we cannot "recreate" the universe, let alone test it repeatedly. All we can do is look at the plain, unbiased facts presented to us.  Both Creation and Evolution take those facts and look at them from a particular view, which biases them. One may be right and the other wrong, both may be wrong, both may be right. I have a feeling it's somewhere in the middle. Explaining the "facts" of how different things have happened are simply theories--points of views of how they happened. Since neither can completely be proven, both creation and evolution theories take an amount of faith to believe, because they're both simply theories.

However, these theories don't necessarily have to contradict each other. The thing is to simply look at the unbiased evidence presented, learn about all the different theories and ideas people have to gather insight, and formulate your OWN belief/explanation about the "hows" and "whys" of the universe. Personally, I believe in the Creation theory. However, in looking at other things said in the Bible (the source of the Creation theory), I don't believe the Creation story is completely literal, although I believe the events are all true and happened in that order.

I believe, personally, that the world was not created literally in 6 days, but that the story divides it into 6 days  because at the time it was written, it was the most fathomable way to explain it. Those "days" in actuality could have been thousands or millions of years. The Bible says that to God, "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day"--which I take to mean that God is not bound by time, as we are (which also explains how he always was, is, and will be, etc.). Since we are bound by time, it's extremely hard to fathom that something could NOT be bound by a time plane (kind of like something bound in the 2nd dimension trying to explain/understand the 3rd dimension, if you will). Anyway, since God's not bound by time, it could've taken however long or short he wanted it to, to create the universe. Because of not being bound by time, it would be kind of hard to explain when these things took place and how long it took, so it was divided into 6 main events--put into neatly packaged "days" for understanding. It very well may have taken 6 literal days, but regardless, that's not the important fact of the matter.*

Using completely pure, unbiased scientific evidence, the creation theory has not been proven wrong. Only when looked at using a biased eye has it been "shown illogical" or something. For example, the order that fossils (like, animals) have been found in the earth is the EXACT same order they were "created" in in the Creation story (I don't remember the order exactly, but something like fish, then reptiles, then birds, then mammals, then humans). Doesn't seem to be evidence AGAINST the creation theory, rather, FOR it.

As for evolution, I believe in it up to a point. To say creatures do not evolve at ALL over time would be completely naive. I believe species adapt and change over time, the "survival of the fittest", if you will (this is actually how I explain different characteristics of different races and appearances of people based on region). Those that cannot survive die, and those that can pass on those genetics. Some that can't adapt MOVE, and so their traits remain the same, and the cycle repeats itself. Genetic mutation happens, too. However, I do not believe one species turned into another, such as a cow coming from a fish or something.

As for the ape/human thing, I believe God created things in order of least complex to most complex, and apes were probably right before humans were created, thus, different creatures have more genetic similarity to each other than others do. Actually, it's rather interesting. I heard from this one scientific video about the man who "discovered" the "link" between man and apes---you know, that fossil that looks half-man, half-ape. Apparently, he admit (or it was discovered) that he put together this skeleton. He found most of the body in one place, and found the head in a completely different place--some large distance like hundreds of feet or several miles or something apart from each other---and there were many, many other fossils of different creatures in between them. Sounds like he picked a random head and a random body, and put 'em together. Sorry that I don't have a source for this. >_<;

Anyway, regardless of one's stance on Evolution and/or Creation, both are theories that come from perspectives of scientific evidence, and both require faith and logic.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." An excellent and deep quote said by Albert Einstein.

* (Edit: With the 6-day theory, here's an interesting bit of information. The world is estimated to be billions of years old, right? As are many fossils that have been found. With this evidence, how could the Creation Story POSSIBLY literally have taken 6 days? Well, different dating methods (i.e. carbon dating) have been found to not be all that accurate or reliable. For example (again, I don't have a source; sorry >_<), this group of scientists or archaeologists or both KNEW this building was 100 years old. They KNEW it; it was a complete fact. Using carbon dating (or some other "reliable" common method), the results said that the building was something like around 1000 to 50,000 years old (or some ridiculous amount like that; I don't remember the numbers, other than the difference was ENORMOUS between the carbon date and the actual date). There was absolutely no question about age of the building, yet look how extremely off and inaccurate the results were. Our tools are not always fool-proof, so some "scientific estimations" may actually be inaccurate. The world may very well not be billions of years old. It may be, it may not be; there's no actual complete, 100% undoubted proof. More evidence that a lot of "science" requires faith, because hard facts are not always there, or are not always accurate.)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 12:12:40 AM by Sapphira »
"The surest way to happiness is to lose yourself in a cause greater than yourself."

« Reply #323 on: March 22, 2006, 12:00:55 AM »
I throw my lot fully into the evolutionary (science) side, because at least they try. Science strives to prove itself wrong, and make its theories better, using the best evidence we have at the time, whereas religion just sits there believing the same exact creation story for thousands of years just because it was written down in some book. And that's not a good reason.

« Reply #324 on: March 22, 2006, 01:28:59 PM »
Yay for Sapphira!  I was just thinking today for some reason "I sure hope that Sapphira shows up in this topic because she's so good at saying things I can't say like I want to, and has great ideas and points" and then you show up!  Alright!  But I didn't think you would write THAT much! XD

I agree with the 6-days may not be an actual 6-days thing, and also the part that neither theory can be proven until time travel is invented and we could see it for ourselves (but then we would probably die or destroy the world or something in that case if we go back too far).  Another reason I have faith in Creation is because it hasn't been disproven yet but evolution has been disproven over and over (so I have heard, and should probably look that up too, sorry).  Despite that, I understand that evolution is so much more complicated and still being studied so it may never reach a point where it can't be disproven (while the theory of Creation stays the same all the time).  And you're right, LD, it's good that people try to keep changing it to stay accurate with their observations.

So, I'm sorry if I have talked way too much in this topic.  I just want to expand my thinking here and hear what people have to say so I can have equal understanding in this.  Did I already say that before? (probably just a million times XD).  I'll say one more time what is the main reason I believe in God and creation because so far, IMO, He is the only way to find our real meaning in life and nothing else appears to be able to do that.  Evolution has some very fascinating (and downright cool) ideas, but says that our significance in the world equals nothing, and I just can't accept that for myself.

"Unless you assume a God, the question of life's purpose is meaningless." Betrand Russell, atheist (from the book Purpose Driven Life)

And now... no one shall ever listen to me again if they ever did before.  I probably deserve it though. XD

Edit: Btw, is it true that science always strives to prove itself wrong, or does it sometimes try to hide proof that contradicts evolution or creation?  Only curious, no offense.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 01:37:19 PM by Yoshisaurus Rex »
(E I): o{D___(--I I): o(D___(o 8(= P)___(=(:  )@)___(3 I)}:O})+)___<( )=(: )) )
The cake is a lie, your base belongs to us, keyboard cat will play you off as you fall out of the bus.

« Reply #325 on: March 22, 2006, 03:02:40 PM »
He is back!!

Also, what YR just said on Time travel...

What if we are part of a loop?
OK, think about this, okay?
In Back To The Future, Marty goes back in time, where he sees his mom and dad in their teen age, well, that made me thinking.
"These guys are stuck in a loop."
WHat I Mean is that the past keeps on repeating its self, thats why we probalby CAN travel back into time. So, 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 Big Bangs could be happening each and every day, possibly more.

So, what if we are ACTUALLY the past loops? What if we are RIPPLES in HISTROY?
What if we are just the PAST of ourselfves that ACTUALLY live in the FUTURE!

If my theory is correct, then that means that our life IS predetermined, that our lives are already planned. Think about THIS!

If a Time Machine was sent to the future, there wouldn't be ONE if there is no faith, but with what MOVIES show, there is destiny, our lives are ALREADY planned out. If there wasn't a predetermined set of events, then a Time Machine would short-circuit going to the future, because, THERE MAY NOT BE ONE!!
Most Wishy-Washy

« Reply #326 on: March 22, 2006, 04:26:50 PM »
I believe in Jesus. I follow him. That's....all I have to say about that.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #327 on: March 22, 2006, 04:34:40 PM »
Wow @ Sapphira's and Yoshisaurus Rex's posts. You guys spend a lot of thought on these topics and it's nice to see that this forum isn't at each other's throats about religious debates like many other forums!
I think PaperLuigi sums up my stance on all these things quite nicely. thank you, PL.

« Reply #328 on: March 22, 2006, 05:00:06 PM »
"Unless you assume a God, the question of life's purpose is meaningless." Betrand Russell, atheist (from the book Purpose Driven Life)

Why does life need to have a purpose besides whatever goals you set for yourself? I mean, why do you want to have goals set by someone else (a god)?

« Reply #329 on: March 22, 2006, 05:12:32 PM »
Because he can SMITE us, that's why!
*cowers with fear*
Most Wishy-Washy