could this happen?

[rubberducky]

this is just what i think could happen im not spreading a rumor

mario games now has the kiddie image. i honestly dont care. sonic the hedgehog changed there image to appeal to older kids. it worked. but do you think nintendo might try to do that with mario? i hope not mario is perfect the way it is. but nintendo would make more money.

[SushieBoy]

I don't think they would do that because a great company like Nintendo wouldn't change marios ways just to make more profits. Nintendo doesn't need to change the game styles (maybe a little) but they need a game that everybody can love like a platformer. But instead nintendo is turning mario and the gang into sport players, dancers, party goers, and pinbal machines. Wait a minute, nintendo IS changing marios ways!

[SolidShroom]

Yes I totally agree. The chang of Mario over the past year or two hasn't been great. Nintendo needs to make more old fasioned mario games like the new SMB and paper SMB. Those two games are a step in the right direction and I hope Nintendo keeps making games like that.

[SushieBoy]

Amen to that!

[PaperLuigi]

this is just what i think could happen im not spreading a rumor

 sonic the hedgehog changed there image to appeal to older kids. it worked.

No, I think Sonic games are worse now. And really.....does it matter what they do to Mario? Heck, I think a shot 'em up would be cool! Okay, so mabey not that, but an older Mario (as opposed to the whole 'Mario Party' image we see today) would be alright. Besides, I doubt Nintendo has the heart to do that. Sega already had experiance with blood and gore games before they even uped the "adultness" (if's that's even a word) of Sonic. Just wait and watch. Mario will always be the Mario he's always been.

[rubberducky]

shadow the hedgehog is selling realy good..........but it sucks. nintendo earns there money buy making good games like mario.

[yoshimastar]

It worked for Sonic? Really now when did this happen?

Nintendo just needs to stop with the goofy charecter designs and put in a few more darker colors instead of the hippie Mario Sunshine look.

[SushieBoy]

No they don't! We don't want mario games to look like splinter cell!

[smfan1085]

No they don't! We don't want mario games to look like splinter cell!

Agreed.

I wonder about anyone who has something against the Mario Sunshine look. Even if it looks somewhat different from the original games, that doesn't necessarily make it bad (though I prefer the original look over it), and the fact that it doesn't have dark colors like "mature" games doesn't make it "kiddy" or "hippie" (ugh) in the least.


Also, I don't think that Shadow the Hedgehog sucks. I think it's a cool game. I may sound like I'm contradicting myself about "mature" games, but really, StH is not at all like the M-rated crap that's so popular these days, and the content is innocuous enough for my mom, who's strict about VG content, to allow it in the house.

[Dark_Shark]

Personally I don't consider Mario a "childish" character.He has appealed to audiances of all ages(including myself).

[SushieBoy]

 Peaple are turning to mature games than mario games just because marios style has gone more kiddie and kiddie over the years. Don't ya'll hate the games that have sensless things like stealing cars, goring peaple, obsene and nude people,shooting cops, Don't we all loved the time when entertaintment and games where bland and not violent, who agrees?

[Dark_Shark]

I agree with you 100%.

[SolidShroom]

Hey, not all m games suck. There is the metal gear solid series. Also GTA is horribly violent but it can be fun. Resident evil isn't bad,Half life rocks, I like all games that are good I don't care if they give off a kiddie vibe or a tastless vibe. Good games span all ratings, and age groups. Now mario should stay like it is, but I will still play whatever the voices inside my head ( and the guys at my local game store) say is good

[Kojinka]

The Mario franchise and its spinoffs are aimed for all ages.  For a while, the only games rated above E that you can play as Mario in are the SSB games.  SSBM was rated T (although I thought that was a little high), and SSBB will most likely be rated T as well.

[yoshimastar]

I'm not saying Sunshine was bad because it was all bright, but could have used some of the color schemes used in games like the Paper Mario's.

And it's not Mario games that are getting kiddie, it's that there's more teens than ever.

[The Chef]

I think the Mario games are fine the way they are.

As for the think about Sonic, the way our blue friend is now has caused the majority of his fanbase to be anime-otaku-type people, and the Shadow game was a stupid attempt to look even more mature. If they wnted a game like like that, they should have given it to Fang the Sniper.
Better a classic character than an overrated rip-off of the main character.

[SolidShroom]

Yeah look at MGS2 with stupid raiden ripping off Solid Snake!

[smfan1085]

The Mario franchise and its spinoffs are aimed for all ages.  For a while, the only games rated above E that you can play as Mario in are the SSB games.  SSBM was rated T (although I thought that was a little high), and SSBB will most likely be rated T as well.

I read on Wikipedia (in the article on DK64) that SSBM was rated T for violence with high-quality graphics. So it does sound like the next one will be rated T also.

[Kojinka]

I still think that was a little high.

[smfan1085]

Yes, I think so too. I'm just saying that apparently that was the grounds upon which ESRB gave it a T rating.

[The Chef]

Maybe the next one will be rated E10.

[SushieBoy]

yeah, the new E10 rating will allow kids to play games that are actually for teens, but who cares about the ratings?

[Kojinka]

Too bad the E10 rating didn't exist back in 2001.  I'm pretty sure that's what SSBM would've gotten if E10 was arround.

[SushieBoy]

true

[G-Dawg]

Well there's a K-A rating they could use...like on Crash Bandicoot.

[billy chilly]

I'm pretty sure K-A got retired in order to make way for E, especially since they mean the same thing. 

As for Sonic games getting more serious... it's pretty retarded, I've found.  The storylines are overblown and trite, the settings have almost NOTHING in common with the levels in the classic Sonics and the characters just seem so lame when they're all "OMG THIS IS SERIOUS DRAMA" especially since the majority of the characters are cartoon animals. 

Though, to be honest, my biggest problem with the recent Sonic games is not the "maturity" it's the fact that, well, they're terrible.  The 3D Sonics: Adventure, Heroes, etc. just aren't fun.  Sonic Advance and Rush, on the other hand, maintain the classically fun gameplay of the originals, while still having the "cooler" looking character designs, but without the crappy storylines and "serious business." 

In short... I like Mario and friends JUST how they are, and would be horrified if they went down the Sonic path. 

[SushieBoy]

once again, true

[The Chef]

As much as I'd like to think it, the Sonic Advance games are NOT faithful representations of the classic side of Sonic. The level design is crappy and the gameplay doesn't have enough platforming implications. It's always hold right and hope you don't hit anything. Plus, they added a few useless characters like Cream(annoying and doesn't even fight on her own) and Blaze(an exact copy of Sonic).

[TEM]

Not liking how all these games look or play is perfectly fine. Basing that negative opinion on the basis of the game not being enough like the first ones in the series is "Grade-A bologna". Do you really want these gaming companies to make the same game over and over with the same graphics and same exact gameplay? Do you have any idea how quickly you would tire of that? Nintendo and Sega should not be shunned for making their games fresh and different from game to game.

Not liking new games is okay, but not liking them purely because they have a new look or gameplay style is just plain stupid.

[Ultima Shadow]

^ Remember everyone, listen to this man.

[Mr.Mad]

i doubt they would would chage him even for a few extra bucks mario is the symbol of gameing if they change him they throw what they earned all the years away

[The Chef]

Not liking new games is okay, but not liking them purely because they have a new look or gameplay style is just plain stupid.

I didn't like the gameplay style because it wasn't fun to play with. If it were more interesting, I'd like it, but it pretty much sucks for a great franchise like Sonic. I think Sega shoul try something more along the lines of New Super Mario Bros.

[smfan1085]

Though, to be honest, my biggest problem with the recent Sonic games is not the "maturity" it's the fact that, well, they're terrible.  The 3D Sonics: Adventure, Heroes, etc. just aren't fun.  Sonic Advance and Rush, on the other hand, maintain the classically fun gameplay of the originals, while still having the "cooler" looking character designs, but without the crappy storylines and "serious business."

Argh... not another 3D Sonic basher!

There's nothing wrong with not liking the Sonic Adventure games, Sonic Heroes, etc., but it really frustrates me to see people calling them terrible and saying they suck over and over on VG message boards. I for one happen to like these games, especially Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, and I think that SA2B is one of the greatest Sonic games ever, even taking the original games into consideration. Like I said, it's fine to disagree, but openly calling them terrible and crappy just annoys me, especially after an argument I was in on another message board about it (though I can't see one that bad popping up here, since there was at least one egregious jerk involved in the argument there who has no equivalent on here).

[billy chilly]

My big beef with the 3D Sonic games (other than what I said about the "OMG SERIOUS BUSINESS!") is that, well, you rarely get to actually play as Sonic.  This wouldn't matter if the other characters' levels were, you know, fun.  If I wanted to play a bland shooter or a poorly made treasure hunting game, I wouldn't be playing SONIC.  Sonic games need to be about running fast, and crazy platforming--while running fast. 

My other problem with the 3D Sonics is that they all have the same problems... Sonic Adventure 2 and Heroes (I won't open up the old wounds of Shadow the Hedgehog) have the SAME camera problems as SA1.  The camera isn't incredibly bad, but it's bad enough to detract form the fun.  Sonic deserves better than these half-assed sequels, and thankfully, he still gets the quality he deserves in his 2D games.  That's not to say these games don't have their shining moments of awesome... they're there, they're just far too few to make up for the other gameplay flaws. 

3D Sonic could (and should) rule, but Sonic Team, for whatever reason, doesn't want to put in the effort to fix the problems with the Sonic Adventure formula. 

[smfan1085]

 ::)

The other characters' stages may not be fun in your opinion, but they definitely work for me, and probably for plenty of other players as well. I think the treasure-hunting levels are very well designed and fun to play, and the formula for them seems to work fine given that there are seemingly countless hiding places for the Emeralds. The shooting levels are pretty good too, IMO. My favorites are still the speed levels, but the others are not bad either. And IMO all the levels in SA2B are made worth playing by the fact that you can collect Chao-raising stuff in them.

The argument that the games aren't good because they go away from the original Sonic formula and have treasure-hunting and shooting levels added is pretty weak. A game can still be good if it goes away from the series' roots. Something new and different showing up in a game in a series can be a good thing. I just think the other levels add a pleasant sort of variety to the gameplay.

I don't think of the Sonic Adventure games as all "SERIOUS BUSINESS" either. They don't really seem more serious than the original Sonic games in my view, except that they have a distinct storyline in them. Sonic Heroes is the same way. Shadow the Hedgehog would qualify more as "serious business", but it's obviously a lot different from the other 3D Sonic titles before it.

As for the camera, it is a minor annoyance, but games with lots of glitches can still be quite good games with a lot of fun value.

[The Chef]

I always thought that Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were pretty darn good, but nothing was really changed in the GCN remakes(and I like the old Dreamcast graphics better for nostalgic reasons).

Sonic Heroes, on the other hand, I found to be sloppy. The three-characcter gameplay was far too convoluted and watered down the speed and platforming parts. The speed sections were buggy and I'd always gat caught on walls or die for no reason while running thru a loop. In addition, It was hard to slow down because I'd immediately go at full speed when ever I touched the analog.
The power and flight sections were annoying because after 6-7 seven seconds of running, I'd have to stop and beat up enemies or fly upwards. This detracts from the speed and platforming that Sonic games are supposed to be about. Lastly(and this probably doesn't matter in the long run), the story was a joke(Shadow's return isn't explained very well, leaving plotholes) and some of the character's personalities were thrown off due to bad writing. The only good thing that came out of this was the return of The Chaotix Crew.

[SolidShroom]

I have to agree, the sonic adventures were great games, in fact some of the bbest Dreamcast games(sould calibur and chu-chu rocket are pretty good), but Sonic heroes was a disappointment for the series. Hopefully, Sega will start making sonic games good again.

P.S. I find it funny that 10 years ago, no one could predict that Sonic,Crash and Mario would all be on the same system.

[smfan1085]

I like Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog also, though I like the Sonic Adventures better, especially SA2B. I've never played the Dreamcast versions (and I've never played a dreamcast either).

[SolidShroom]

Shadow the hedgehog made me want to puke. Now that There has been a sonic shooting game, what will be next, Mario Gear Solid? Or how about Mariohunt? or Grand theft Mario?

[The Chef]

Shadow the Hedgehog suffers from all the same problems a Heroes, and introduces a few new ones.
-The mission-based gameplay with the ability to choose your side felt very rushed together.
-Shadow's main attacks were lowered in power to make room for the guns(which were unnecissary but they were forced into the game).
-Sometimes you have to drive vehicles which are slower than Shadow himself.
- No matter which side you've chosen,The guys fighting for your side(aliens/humans) will still attack you.
-The Chaos moves are not useful(Control warps you ahead, but you'll miss whatever you need to complete the mission and there's never enough enemies to use Blast on).
-Th final battle is an exact rip-off of the one from Heroes.
-The storyline is pathetic. It's a lame attept to be 'dark' and 'edgy' but it's exteremly stereotypical.*
-The character's voices are the horrid ones from the 4kids dub of Sonic X.*
-Shadow says '****' every three words in another lame attempt to look 'mature'.*
-The prblems from Heroes I mentioned before are on a far worse scale.
-The graphics are sub-par for a Gamecube/PS2/Xbox game.*

*(these don't have an affect on the crappy gameplay, but they're still annoying)

[smfan1085]

Shadow the hedgehog made me want to puke.

AHEM. There we go again with the inflammatory comments.

Now that There has been a sonic shooting game, what will be next, Mario Gear Solid? Or how about Mariohunt? or Grand theft Mario?

This argument doesn't make sense due to the fact that the Sonic series, with its "cool" sort of air about it, is and always has been more suitable for changes to please the older gamer crowd (regardless of whether such changes are really a good thing or not) than the Mario series, which by its very nature must remain more or less family-friendly.


The Chef's post below the one quoted is more reasonable, citing some causes for dissatisfaction with certain aspects of the game (though it still contains words like "crappy").

[SolidShroom]

You have to admit that Sonic was better when it was more kid friendly. They tried to make it more mature and they screwed up. I am hoping that Mario never does this but it just might...unfortunately.

[smfan1085]

No, it will never happen with Mario. Think about it for just a few moments. A series about a cartoonish, jolly Italian plumber fighting a bunch of giant turtles, becoming "mature"? No way in the universe.

I think it was better when Sonic was more kid-friendly, but Shadow the Hedgehog is still good IMO, and it was honestly not that kid-unfriendly. (Sure, there is that one word appearing all the time in there, and I don't like that particular aspect at all, but I like other stuff about the game, and apparently my mom, who's strict about what games I get, doesn't have too much of a problem with this game, so I figure there's not much to worry about.) The game is nothing at all like M-rated games. If it were, I would want nothing to do with it.

[SolidShroom]

No, it will never happen with Mario. Think about it for just a few moments. A series about a cartoonish, jolly Italian plumber fighting a bunch of giant turtles, becoming "mature"? No way in the universe.

Ahem, cutsey charachters aren't like that forever.*cough*Conker*cough*

[Virtual_Boy]

Sonic deserves better than these half-assed sequels, and thankfully, he still gets the quality he deserves in his 2D games.  That's not to say these games don't have their shining moments of awesome... they're there, they're just far too few to make up for the other gameplay flaws.  

Yeah, I agree. I really liked Sonic up until anything after Sega Genesis. I think it started going downhill from there.

PS. You can say "assed" on the board?!?o_O

[smfan1085]

Ahem, cutsey charachters aren't like that forever.*cough*Conker*cough*

I tried to reply to this last night, but the stupid Internet time limit on this computer forced me to get off.

Conker didn't have an established past before they made BFD. The idea of taking someone like Mario, who already is a very well-known family-friendly character, and putting him in a "mature" game would instantly be rejected by everyone with a brain. With Conker, it wasn't so absurd, since he was only an obscure character who appeared in like two games before BFD.

[neotev]

Mario isnt cutesy. I think SSBM was a very good franchise because It appeals to the "Mature" gamers and still keeps mario just the way he is. Mario is not cutesy as long as they can make games like SSBM then they will do well with mario. (Not that hes not doing well now or anything.)

[The Chef]

Mario could never go thru the changes that Sonic did because his franchise didn't need an overhaul after his company's third-generation system failed. Need I remind you that the overhaul I'm talking about is where the Sonic shifted from family-friendly toon to geek-friendly anime character. Mario hasn't gone thru a change like that and I hpe to God that he never does.

[neotev]

I dont understand how you can call Mario "Cutesy" on a Mario forum. It just does'nt make any sense.

[Kojinka]

Mario himself is not considered cutesy.  It's just that many of the characters and races in his franchise are considered cutesy, like Lakitu, the Yoshis, Toads, and Koopa Troopas.  Only when he's a baby do I consider Mario himself "cutesy".

[Raccoon Sam]

Agreed.

[Nintendo Bros.]

I really think Mario is cool just the way he is. Nintendo will 99.99% maybe change Mario in the future. In video games and cartoons, the characters never grow old sometimes and they always will stay the same. Mario is the same way. Besides, the hat, overalls, and hefty extrerior (I didn't know that word, or spell it, heh) are his trademark.

[Clark Beyer]

I don't think Mario ever had a kiddy image to begin with.

Where to start...the Super Mario Bros. Trilogy for the NES, the SMW duo for the SNES, and the four GBA Mairo platformers...as well as all the Super Mario Land games...none of those have a kiddy feel in them.  Why?  They are all 2D sidescrolling platformers.  There's nothing really kiddy about that.  If anything, it's hardcore.

The only games that seem to have a kiddy feel in them would be the first Paper Mario and the Mario Party games.  But that kiddy feel exists solely in appearance.

[The Chef]

I remember reading this interview in Nintendo Power where Myamoto said that he never initially intended the Mario games to be geared towards kids. He said that that problem first arose when Mario was cast as a baby in Yoshi's Island.

[Nintendo Bros.]

I remember reading this interview in Nintendo Power where Myamoto said that he never initially intended the Mario games to be geared towards kids. He said that that problem first arose when Mario was cast as a baby in Yoshi's Island.

I think he also said that in the future, Mario might be wearing metal overalls. Heh.

[The Chef]

That's not the point. The point is, Mario never deserved the kiddy image he was stuck with in the long run.

[coolkid]

Agreed!*claps*