Do you Homebrew?

[FlamingBlueMario]

I'm thinking about joining the Homebrew Community, but I'm not sure how to get started. I've heard and read about the Twilight Hack but I don't have that game yet (then go buy it, right?) well, because I just don't feel like buying it right now, but I will in the near future. I also wonder about Homebrew on the DS. How exactly does it work and were can I obtain the tools? Also what's it like being in the Homebrew Community. What are the ups and downs to it and stuff like that.

EDIT: And is it wrong to Homebrew?

[bobman37]

The title of this thread is deceiving. On a related note: PM me if you would like to discuss proper moonshine techniques.

[Chupperson Weird]

It is most certainly not wrong to use homebrew software. Some of the stuff you can do with homebrew is pushing the boundaries of goodness and niceness though. Anyway, I don't play many homebrew games because there aren't a lot that are good, but homebrew utilities and such (and emulators, for translations and only-English-in-PAL games) are useful. DS homebrew requires devices which I doubt we should be discussing here.

[Lizard Dude]

EDIT: And is it wrong to Homebrew?

It violates the End User License Agreement of the Wii, so such use may be illegal, voids any warranty, and is a breach of the agreement so Nintendo could legally sue you to at least take away your Wii.

If you consider breaking a contract you entered into wrong, then yes, it's wrong.

[Eclipsed Moon]

Specifically:

Chapter II: Unauthorized Software, Services, or Devices or Unlicensed Accessories

Your Wii Console and the Wii Network Service are not designed for use with unauthorized software, services, or devices or non-licensed accessories, and you may not use any of these with your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service. Such use may be illegal, voids any warranty, and is a breach of this agreement. Such use may also lead to injury to you or others or cause performance issues or damage to your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service. We (and our licensees and distributors) are not responsible for damage or loss caused by unauthorized software, services or devices or non-licensed accessories. We may take steps to disable or delete any unauthorized software, services or device installed in your Wii Console, for example, by detecting and disabling them through the Wii Network Service and/or game software. If we detect unauthorized software, services, or devices, your access to the Wii Network Service may be disabled and/or the Wii Console or games may be unplayable.

[Captain Jim]

My sister thought it was called "The Hebrew Channel"

Anyways, yes. I do Homebrew.

[FlamingBlueMario]

I don't want to encourage homebrewing or anything like that. Just wondering how it worked and stuff. I was also wondering why some people hate it, while others love it. I decided not to go Homebrew and just stick to buying and downloading stuff the right way.

No way do I want to get sued by the big Nintendo...or any other company, for that matter.

[Chupperson Weird]

Nintendo could sue you but there's pretty much completely no chance they ever would.

[Luigalaxy]

I try to homebrew, but fail miserably.

[ShadowBrain]

I don't know much about homebrew, which is why and because I don't do it.

[Glorb]

I don't homebrew and never plan to but I absolutely encourage it just because I feel you should have total rights and control over the property you paid for, and really, even some you don't. I've got the same stance on DRM.

[Weegee]

DRM?

[WarpRattler]

Digital rights management.

[BP]

Glorb is right. Creating programs for your video game consoles is no more evil than putting a bumper sticker on your car. Homebrew is great for amateur programmers. It just gets a negative image from piracy (including emulation) and cheating.

Emulation is really not as evil as everyone makes it out to be. It's not illegal to have an emulator--the ROMs are the ulawful part. Even then, think about this: Thanks to emulators for the Wii (except for Wii64, it still sucks), I could play almost any game I own with just the Wii or 360. I own Super Mario All-Stars, so why is it different that I play it on the Wii, reading it from an SD card, with a Classic Controller than if I play it on the SNES, reading it from a SNES cart, with a SNES controller? It's understandable that this theoretical freedom is voided when the game hits the Virtual Console, I suppose, but...

I only use cheats to get more freedom in the game. Brawl: I remove camera limitations, I make for overlapping in the stage builder, I make it allow for longer replays to be saved, and that's all. Super Mario Galaxy: I can swap between Mario and Skeletal Mario (from the death-by-electrocution animation) with the press of a button-FUN! I can also access powerups whenever I like, but guess wha I've used that to do? Explore areas at my will. Not cheat my way to stars. I got all 120 for Mario anyway. I disapprove of cheats being used to really cheat. It's no fun that way anyway.

An of course I love homebrew--how else would Stack Smash be going without it? Homebrew haters, I ask, do you at least respect the Brawl hacking teams?

[CrossEyed7]

The whole concept of EULAs and all that is based on a really lousy interpretation of outdated copyright laws. Back when they had the room-sized computers where you got programs on index cards with holes punched into them, the companies selling the packs of cards realized that under current law, it was technically illegal for anyone to use their programs, since it required copying the program off the cards into the computer. So they used that loophole to say that you don't actually own the program, but have merely signed a contract that allows you to use their program in certain ways. We really need to get around to fixing that.

I dabble in homebrew, mostly for emulation, but only for games that I've bought on the VC or that aren't available on the VC yet, or for ROM hacks which are usually so different that they pretty much should count as new games. As long as I stick to that, the only people I'm hurting are GameStop and eBay, who Nintendo doesn't like anyway. If a game I have a ROM of gets released on the VC, I delete my copy and, unless I hated it and only played it once or twice, buy the VC version as soon as I get some points.

Summary: It technically violates the letter of the law. In my opinion, the laws as they currently stand/are interpreted violate the spirit of the law. Morally, it's up to you to decide.

[Chupperson Weird]

I like having physical copies of stuff and doing historical reenactment of video gaming. But for stuff that hasn't been translated, emulation is fine. I don't emulate much but when I do I only use save states for quicksaving.

[BP]

Ah! I forgot all about the issue of save states. I also only use them if I need to quit playing--not for insurance. I used to use them to prevent bad things from happening all the time. I guess I got tired of Resetti digging holes through my computer screen. And also, they're more volatile than normal saves. I didn't realize that "Snapshot" in SNES9x GX was pretty much "Save state," saved one, and accidentally went all the way back to the beginning of Twoson from Fourside. And I had bought the T-Rex's bat as Jeff by selling cookies and bread. I was pretty upset.

[hydrakiller4000]

I don't like Homebrew at all. The people who created it ruined the Nintendo Wii. This is because now the Virtual Console is useless if you can get the games on there for free. That takes away money that Nintendo rightfully deserves. Emulation and hacking on a new system is just ridiculous; it ruins everything by creating so many problems in gaming communities and companies, and many skilled people can lose a match in a game because someone else decided to hack and cheat their way to achieve some goals.

Here's an example:

Once, I was playing Mario Kart Wii. I was playing Balloon Battle online, and one of my teammates was hacking. He stood in the middle of GBA Battle Course 3, and he had a permanent Mega Mushroom, Star, and he also had a constant supply of Winged Shells and Red Turtle Shells. We won the match so easily with barely any effort. Meanwhile, someone on the other team could've been an extremely good player with a very high BR rating, yet lost because some unskilled or unconfident player decided to hack.

I don't mind hacking in older games, but doing it for newer games is pointless. It takes the fun out of the generation that won't come back again. Besides, it's hard to enjoy the game in the first place when you have hackers and people not willing to pay an easily-obtainable $5 to get a game.

I just find it sad that people have to resort to such things, especially since they're able to afford the $250 for a Wii, however much for a computer, and online connectivity.

Homebrew haters, I ask, do you at least respect the Brawl hacking teams?

I respect the Brawl hacking teams for their effort, but I think what they're doing is pointless. What's the purpose of a texture hack, other than to look cool? You're just playing a character with a modified look. All characters' attacks remain the same, as well as the physics of the game and everything else it has to offer.

[Kojinka]

I respect the Brawl hacking teams for their effort, but I think what they're doing is pointless. What's the purpose of a texture hack, other than to look cool? You're just playing a character with a modified look. All characters' attacks remain the same, as well as the physics of the game and everything else it has to offer.

The point is that they're just having fun.
For example, I would've loved seeing Luigi fight as Mr. L, but that didn't happen.  If I had or wanted Homebrew, I could use it to hack Luigi's textures, and make him into Mr. L.
It's not really harming anyone.

[Glorb]

The people who created it ruined the Nintendo Wii. This is because now the Virtual Console is useless if you can get the games on there for free. That takes away money that Nintendo rightfully deserves.

lolololololololololololol

[Chupperson Weird]

??????????
"Taking away" money is when you don't buy them through VC. You don't have to not buy them on VC.
Also, you aren't taking money. You just aren't giving it to them.

[Glorb]

I'd like to add another point I should've made earlier:

If hacking Brawl to make new character skins is pointless, isn't complaining about it even more pointless?

[Boo Dudley]

Is there a hack that makes sticker-collecting reasonable? 'Cause I'm this close to bursting a vessel.

[BP]

Brawl costume hacking pointless? It's quite possibly the most meaningful thing I do right now.

[Boo Dudley]

What's more important than making samus' zero suit no suit?

[hydrakiller4000]

??????????
"Taking away" money is when you don't buy them through VC. You don't have to not buy them on VC.
Also, you aren't taking money. You just aren't giving it to them.

Okay, then you're just not giving them money that they should've gotten. That's because they would've earned that money if you got games off of the Virtual Console the right way, not using hacks to get them for free.

I'd like to add another point I should've made earlier:

If hacking Brawl to make new character skins is pointless, isn't complaining about it even more pointless?

Yes, it is. That's why I'm not complaining about it; I'm posting my opinion of it.

Software that is normally purchased can be obtained for free with many types of software. In this case, no one really considers it from the company's point of view. You may not care, but they certainly do, and them missing out on profits could potentially affect the products we receive. Maybe you shouldn't complain about Nintendo making their games "worse." You may be the cause of that because they're not making as much profit as they intend to, so they're just putting things out there to make a good profit. They already lose billions of dollars from pirating, so you can't say that it's not affecting them.

[Eclipsed Moon]

False dilemma.  If you were to take away piracy as an option, many people would simply not play the game at all, and awareness would be dropped.  I first played Super Metroid on an emulator.  The result?  I buy Metroid games.  The EarthBound fan community most likely consists primarily of people using emulators.  There is an overwhelming support to have the game released for Virtual Console.  See a pattern?

Also, I'm fairly sure everyone here is considering it from the company's point of view, but I'm also going to hazard a guess that you're just assuming that whoever you were addressing right then complains about Nintendo making games worse.

[Kojinka]

To some people, Pirating games, like Earthbound is a way to show Nintendo how much money could be made if they would just bring the game to VC.
Emulating ROMs is illegal, but it can also send a message.  The negative is that the intended message does not always reach the corporation.

[WarpRattler]

I'd like to speak on the behalf of DS homebrew:

Colors and Moonshell are awesome. That is all.

[BP]

Lawyers who want changes to EarthBound to avoid possible attempted lawsuits + Nintendo of America people who refuse to make those changes

=

EarthBound is never going to be released on the Virtual Console.

Fire up ZSNES, everyone. Or if you're better than that, search Wiibrew for SNES9x GX. A good SNES emulator for Wii.

[nensondubois]

I don't like Homebrew at all. The people who created it ruined the Nintendo Wii. This is because now the Virtual Console is useless if you can get the games on there for free. That takes away money that Nintendo rightfully deserves. Emulation and hacking on a new system is just ridiculous; it ruins everything by creating so many problems in gaming communities and companies, and many skilled people can lose a match in a game because someone else decided to hack and cheat their way to achieve some goals.

Here's an example:

Once, I was playing Mario Kart Wii. I was playing Balloon Battle online, and one of my teammates was hacking. He stood in the middle of GBA Battle Course 3, and he had a permanent Mega Mushroom, Star, and he also had a constant supply of Winged Shells and Red Turtle Shells. We won the match so easily with barely any effort. Meanwhile, someone on the other team could've been an extremely good player with a very high BR rating, yet lost because some unskilled or unconfident player decided to hack.

I don't mind hacking in older games, but doing it for newer games is pointless. It takes the fun out of the generation that won't come back again. Besides, it's hard to enjoy the game in the first place when you have hackers and people not willing to pay an easily-obtainable $5 to get a game.

I just find it sad that people have to resort to such things, especially since they're able to afford the $250 for a Wii, however much for a computer, and online connectivity.

I respect the Brawl hacking teams for their effort, but I think what they're doing is pointless. What's the purpose of a texture hack, other than to look cool? You're just playing a character with a modified look. All characters' attacks remain the same, as well as the physics of the game and everything else it has to offer.

I completely respect that point. And yes, texture hacks are a wasted effort.

[Kojinka]

What you pretty much said was that BP was wasting his time

[BP]

Think whatever you want--I take it as good experience. I want to be a game artist, so I love doing stuff for Stack Smash. I need to quit being so lazy though.

Not only that but it lets us put whatever characters we want in. Usually it's a skin-deep thing, with characters only looking like other characters... but Ike as Roy and Ness as Ninten aren't too big of stretches.

[Chupperson Weird]

Dear Hydrakiller, you are not listening. No one requires you to pirate games simply because the option exists. As I said, you don't have to pirate a certain game if you can buy it on Virtual Console. I buy VC games. I also put other games on my Wii that have never been released in America, released on VC, or translated. If they started translating things and officially releasing them through Virtual Console, I would be all over buying them.

[ShadowBrain]

To me, homebrew is like, well, "home brew": I don't want to do it, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it if you're not getting out of control.

As for why I don't like it... well, I feel like it would sort of cheapen the game, make it feel more like a Lego set to be aimlessly toyed with, picked apart, and modified instead of appreciated as is, warts and all (I always made the exact thing the instructions were for and never changed it when I got those things as a kid... what does that tell you). I respect everyone else who wants to do it, though, and I think texture hacks and whatnot can produce some fabulous results.

[Chupperson Weird]

I used to have a hard time building original Lego creations when I was a kid too, because I must have thought they were designed to only be put together one way or something.

[Eclipsed Moon]

make it feel more like a Lego set to be aimlessly toyed with, picked apart, and modified

Now that's fun.