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Author Topic: Cheating AI makes me angry.  (Read 14747 times)

« on: December 27, 2003, 07:09:06 PM »
Why does Nintendo put Cheating AI into the Mario Kart series? Is it because the CPU players are sore losers? Mario Kart: Double Dash!! has serious Cheating AI problems. For example, all of you who have played this game know that if the Red Shell misses the player it's going for, it keeps going and crashes into a wall or something, BUT when I was playing the "All Cup Tour" and in the "Bowser's Castle" course, the CPU player behind me shot a Red Shell and missed me as I was jumping over the ramp before the Finish line. THEN it landed on the track in front of me, it moved in the opposite direction all of the sudden and started circling so it would try to hit me anyway! But it missed me; HA HA HA! YOUR LITTLE PLAN WAS THWARTED! And Green Shells just appear out of nowhere in from of me as I near the Finish Line.

Mmmmm, good white, hearty, white bread for white, white people!

Edited by - nintendoexpert89 on 12/27/2003 5:10:14 PM

« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2003, 07:27:30 PM »
What's up with your signature, dude?

I noticed that too about MKDD.  I mean I wasn't very good at it anyway (heh) but I would always get screwed over just as I was about to win, in some weird way that a human opponent wouldn't have been able to pull off.  The AI karts also recover from setbacks a lot faster than they should--like if I fall into a hole at some point near the end, I'm probably not going to end up in any place higher than third or so, but an opponent kart will be right back in first about 30 seconds later.  It kills me.
Chiichana mune, okkina hitomi . . .

Markio

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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2003, 07:29:14 PM »
Well, I actually like how they're more challenging.  Somewhere they said, "The racers are a lot more competitive, but they don't magically become faster when you pass them!"

No plate like chrome for the hollindaise.
"Hello Kitty is cool, but I like Keroppi the best."

« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2003, 07:36:21 PM »
One thing I have noticed is that sometimes, the AI players just suddenly appear to in 1st, conviently without you seeing them pass you.

Know why the elderly contribute so much to the church? To buy their way into Heaven from a lifetime of sin.
Know why the elderly contribute so much to the church? To buy their way into Heaven from a lifetime of sin.

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2003, 07:46:00 PM »
Ah yes, the good old "Quick Recovery AI" that is a staple of the Mario Kart games. It happened in Mario Kart for SNES (Seriously, I had a trick which caused the AI to fall a half lap behind; they'd be back with me within 2 laps), It happened in MK64, and it appears that it is happening in DD, also. Interesting. At least this time Nintendo is trying to justify their AI system... (At least, if what I read on this thread is true.)

Mario Party is another series infamous for rigging the random number generators to favor the AIs -- the original Mario Party, although it had the best mini-games, was plagued with the cheapest AI units. All me and none of my friends used to do is complain about how bad the computer-controlled characters cheated. *sigh*

Stupid Quotes: (10th Edition)
"Super Mario Sunshine is an overhyped, boring kids` game with a fruity name that got higher ratings than it deserved."
"Aaron S." - with a dishonorable mention to Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine (Issue #165, pg. 24) for printing the opinions of people who don`t deserve to have opinions.
~I.S.~

« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2003, 07:49:07 PM »
Has anyone ever noticed that in the original Mario Kart for the SNES that if be play as a certain character, another certain CPU is ALWAYS programmed to be in 2nd place whilst you're in first? For example, if you hit that CPU player with a shell and he goes about 5 ranks back, his cart suddenly speeds up and gets back into his original position. I have made a chart here showing whoever you play as, that CPU player will have the Cheating AI:

Human/CPU:
Mario/DK JR.
Luigi/Yoshi
Princess/Bowser
Yoshi/Koopa Troopa
Toad/Princess
DK JR./Toad
Koopa Troopa/Luigi
Bowser/Mario

Edit: Oh, Insane Steve already brought Super Mario Kart up 3 minutes eariler. And he's RIGHT about the Mario Party series as well.

Mmmmm, good white, hearty, white bread for white, white people!

Edited by - nintendoexpert89 on 12/27/2003 5:54:16 PM

Fifth

  • Quadruped
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2003, 08:03:52 PM »
Oh, the computer cheating is mild in double dash (I haven't really noticed anything, other than heavy characters doing very well) compared to Mario Kart 64.

Here are some things I've proven...
-Computer players will "chase", exceeding any logical speeds to catch up.
-Computers will recover from a fall as soon as their kart passes over the edge line of the track
-Copmuters will not suffer any course obsticales (train, cars, etc.) unless you are watching them
-Computers don't actually get items (running over the item boxes is just a ceremonial issue) and can summon anything at any time (though it's mostly random)
-Computers would never use any sort of shell or mushroom
-Ghosts would give you a random item - that is, not a random player's item - when playing with any number of computers

...and that's all I can think of right now.

And you'll have to be a little lenient about the Mario party games.  Think about it:  for every new game that comes out, almost every single minigame requires a different means of playing, and so a new AI code for the computers.  They have to make accomodations from time to time, one way or another.  (Though I was still annoyed that time a 'puter got a star on his FIRST TURN in Mario Party 1.)

Go Moon!
Go Moon!

« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2003, 08:08:15 PM »
THAT'S RIGHT!! They don't suffer any obstacles! I shot a CPU player with a Red Shell while far away (nearly off-screen), and the player didn't fly up into the air! That sickens me.

Mmmmm, good white, hearty, white bread for white, white people!

Markio

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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2003, 08:40:56 PM »
Of course, that's MK64.

No plate like chrome for the hollindaise.
"Hello Kitty is cool, but I like Keroppi the best."

« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2003, 09:16:45 PM »
They cheat horribly in Mario Kart.
They cheat horribly in Mario Kart 64.
They cheat horribly in Mario Kart: Super Circuit.
They cheat not so much in Mario Kart: Double Dash!!

One of the first things I noticed about DD!! is that the comps didn't cheat nearly as bad. I could easily nearly lap them on the easier cups and they would never magically boost up to me. The AI does seem to be better on the harder cups, but cheating does still happen regularly.

Come on Mario Kart series, look how well Rare did it in Diddy Kong Racing. The computer never cheated, raced with skill, actually picked up items like the player did (incredible!) and made for a much better time.

my pathetic attempts at humor are fleeting

Forest Guy

  • Neoconned
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2003, 09:19:15 PM »
Yes. I hate AI advantages. However, it is fun to use their AI against them too. In some games such as Super Smash Bros. Melee, you can use it to your advantage. Some instances include, standing still near a certain place on a stage while a computer character walks towards you walks off the cliff, jumps back, and jumps forward again, resulting in their demise. Amnother would be to have them at nan edge, stand far away and have someone like Mewtwo start charging up the Shdadow Ball but cannot jump while doing this, they try to charge up but end up falling to their deaths. Computer AI is a double-edged sword. Unfortunately, most games have such clever AI that you cannot trick them like in Melee.

I despise ignorant people.
= = = = = = =
Sometimes we need to routinely step over the line in order to remind ourselves where the line actually is.

Fifth

  • Quadruped
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2003, 09:20:31 PM »
Yeah, Diddy Kong Racing had the "Diddy effect", under which any computer player in front of Diddy would suffer a terrible "accident" to ensure that Diddy would get 1st.

Okay, so that's not quite as well-grounded as the Mario Kart things...

Go Moon!
Go Moon!

Markio

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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2003, 10:10:44 PM »
Who cares if they cheat as long as you win?

I''m the "trick" in "eccentric".
"Hello Kitty is cool, but I like Keroppi the best."

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2003, 10:28:38 PM »
DKR is about the only racing game I STILL can't beat. I'm stuck on that last race where you have to race Wizpig (I think that was his name -- if not, meh) on the rocket. I'm terrible with the plane.

And DKR is the model racing game in my mind AI wise, especially because of the rule where the racers that are way behind STAY behind. I can lap everyone in the hovercraft races (I am amazing at the hovercraft) and the game won't send the 2nd place person up like in the MK series.

Actually, there's a semi-obscure racing game for the N64 entitled "Snowboard Kids" that had the single worst AI ever. Far worse than MK, to be sure. Essentially, the game sends a CPU-controlled character to wherever you are on the track, no matter how far ahead or behind you are. If you gain a half "lap" advantage, it'll be gone in about 5 seconds. If you fall behind by a half lap, the CPU-controlled character ahead of you will have about 10 accidents in a row so you can catch up. Essentially, it is a coin toss as to who wins.

Stupid Quotes: (10th Edition)
"Super Mario Sunshine is an overhyped, boring kids` game with a fruity name that got higher ratings than it deserved."
"Aaron S." - with a dishonorable mention to Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine (Issue #165, pg. 24) for printing the opinions of people who don`t deserve to have opinions.
~I.S.~

« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2003, 10:45:30 PM »
I sometimes don't mind if a player catches up to me, but if it's the same person I killed over and over that's when I become nasty.

Know why the elderly contribute so much to the church? To buy their way into Heaven from a lifetime of sin.
Know why the elderly contribute so much to the church? To buy their way into Heaven from a lifetime of sin.

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