What do you consider canon?

[kamikaze koopa]

I just wanted to know what games in the Mario series would people consider "canon" or "in universe".  I know alot of people have said that if it's got the official Nintendo logo it than it's part of the universe.  And I've heard  others say that they don't consider the any of the spin-off games (the kart series, the party series, ect.), as having actually occured.  So I wanted to know what the people in these forums thought on the subject.

Personally, I tend to lean towards the latter opinion of not recognizing the spin-off games as being canon.

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Pessimists are technically happier people. They think things will suck...and if things do suck they just say ''Oh, I guess I was right''. Then if things don''t suck they get a sudden surprise...unexpected joy. So the worst thing that can happen is you''re proven right. An optimist can be let down but a pessimist can''t

[Screech]

I like to think that anything with a story printed in the manual is cannon.

"At Dukar, we place our emphasis on serving you, supporting
you, and helping you be as successful as possible."

[kamikaze koopa]

Hmmm, that's a good way to look at it.  I suppose if they don't give us a storyline, then we can't be blamed for not acknowledging it, eh?  ^_^

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Pessimists are technically happier people. They think things will suck...and if things do suck they just say ''Oh, I guess I was right''. Then if things don''t suck they get a sudden surprise...unexpected joy. So the worst thing that can happen is you''re proven right. An optimist can be let down but a pessimist can''t

[Chupperson Weird]

I'd have to disagree with that standpoint, on account of games like Super Mario 2. The NES version's manual is so messed up it's hard to take any of it seriously. For the most part, however, I've never really thought about what was canon or not in the Mario games. There's no definite timeline, and Shiggy doesn't want complex backstories. I find it very hard to insert things like the Mario Party in the continuity, I guess, of the games. But on the other hand, they do provide some interesting glimpses into when the characters are lazing around before stuff happens (in MP3, anyway).

[Luigison]

*turns slightly to the left

Paper Mario 2 is supposed to have a rather deep story for a Mario game.  Nintendo thinks that it's longer story will appeal more to older/mature gamers.  The Japanese original is all serious from what I understand, but the NOA Localization time is putting in a lot of funny dialog.  I hope it comes off funny, but think that the way Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga was programmed and written to be funny is a better model.

*turns back slightly to the right

I don't consider SMB2 to be canon.  It was originally another games that was made into a Mario game/dream.  I consider the following canon.

- Super Mario Bros.
- Super Mario Bros. 3
- Super Mario World
- Super Mario RPG (not sure about this one)
- Super Mario 64
- Super Mario Sunshine
- Super Mario 128 (???)

Notice that the above all have "Super Mario" in the title.  Maybe that part of the title makes them canon.  I would venture to guess that most people will also consider Super Mario 128 canon.

The following could also be considered canon.

- Paper Mario
- Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
- Paper Mario 2

Maybe a good way to divide the games is to consider if the Princess was kidnaped by Bowser in them.  Or, if they were both made and published by Nintendo.

I do not consider the following to be canon.

- Mario is Missing
- Mario Teaches Typing 1 & 2
- Mario Paint (I love that "game".)
- Mario Kart
- Super Mario Land (or anygame to affiliated with Shiggy)
- too many more to mention

Thanks for one of the best questions posted on the Fungi Forums lately.

*turns 180 degrees and runs off

[kamikaze koopa]

You're very welcome.  I noticed that you didn't post Super Mario World 2 as being considered canon.  May I ask why?  Simply out of curiousity.

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Pessimists are technically happier people. They think things will suck...and if things do suck they just say ''Oh, I guess I was right''. Then if things don''t suck they get a sudden surprise...unexpected joy. So the worst thing that can happen is you''re proven right. An optimist can be let down but a pessimist can''t

[kamikaze koopa]

Hmmm, I'd like to rephrase what I said about my opinion on what is and isn't canon.  The only games I view as canon are the platformers/sidescrollers and the RPGs.  With the obvious exceptions of Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine.

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Pessimists are technically happier people. They think things will suck...and if things do suck they just say ''Oh, I guess I was right''. Then if things don''t suck they get a sudden surprise...unexpected joy. So the worst thing that can happen is you''re proven right. An optimist can be let down but a pessimist can''t

[MEGAߥTE]

Maybe because SMW2 completely rewrote the back-history of Mario that was laid out by the cartoons, comics, movie, etc. (though the movie was also an alternative story, it still had hints of the cartoons and comics).

[TEM]

.tneb ytilaeR dna dewols emiT

.tnew namggE eht no dna no tuB

[kamikaze koopa]

Lol, I saw that picture coming.

But I'm not so sure about Yoshi's Island rewriting the whole history.  Actually, if anything it seems to me that it acts like a bridge to fill in a bunch of the gaps formed by the comics and the games.  I guess I should probably explain.

So, the way I see it, Mario and Luigi were both born in the Mushroom Kingdom where they lived with thier actual parents until they were little kids.  Maybe around four or five (It was during this time that Mario met and "befriended" Wario).  Then after a short while, thier parents, as well as the Mushroom Royalty, saw that if the children stayed there then they would be in certain danger if Baby Bowser decided to strike back.  So they sent them to earth as a safety precaution until they reached the time when they were prophecised to return.

*Whew* Sorry to ramble on like that.  But anyway, I do see your point on not excepting it as canon.  Different strokes, I guess.  ^_^

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Pessimists are technically happier people. They think things will suck...and if things do suck they just say ''Oh, I guess I was right''. Then if things don''t suck they get a sudden surprise...unexpected joy. So the worst thing that can happen is you''re proven right. An optimist can be let down but a pessimist can''t

[MEGAߥTE]

Except if you've watched/seen all of the comics/cartoons, you'd know that that theory doesn't work because too much of the Mario brothers' childhoods were already filled in.  The twins thing especially is a problem.

[kamikaze koopa]

Man, I don't trust the cartoons though.  I assume you're talking about the Mario Brother's Super Show and all those, because I'm not aware of any other show.  Anyway, my point is that the cartoons contradict the entire series, not just one game (Yoshi's Island).  So I don't consider them as having actually happened at all.  And as for the comics, I suppose you have a point, and once again I'm going to make an assumption that you're mostly refering to the small strips that used to appear in Nintendo Power.  However I don't think any of those comic strips should be acknowledged.  For example, fans of the Metroid series (such as myself ^_^) don't see the events in those strips having ever happened, otherwise we'd have to except the fact that Houston Armstrong was an actual character *shudder*.

But I'm getting waaaay off track.  My point was that since SMW2 came after the comics, and since it's an actual game as opposed a short little comic strip, then it should override the comics.  Kind of like how the Mario Advance series overrides the older games.  Or at least that's the impression that I've gotten from most of the fans.

Anyway, if I've missed something or just misunderstood, please except my apologise.

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Pessimists are technically happier people. They think things will suck...and if things do suck they just say ''Oh, I guess I was right''. Then if things don''t suck they get a sudden surprise...unexpected joy. So the worst thing that can happen is you''re proven right. An optimist can be let down but a pessimist can''t

[Red Paratroopa]

I like to think that Houston Armstrong is the dead guy in Super Metroid.

"I''m a stupid fatty who swings his arms from side to side and pushes a button to receive bacon. The universe is permeated with the odor of Shawne Vinson. Does that make me a nut?"- DotheLizardkoopaChupVinsonluigi

[Lizard Dude]

I think SMW2 is canon and the comics/shows are not.

“I’m a stupid fatty and I love to play with my Easy Bake oven.”

[Chupperson Weird]

I'm with Lizard Dude.

I mean seriously, you trust some cartoon company more than Nintendo themselves? Pah.